Hopkins
Commercial User
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Earlier ...
You mentioned tone right there, in response to someone else's post: "... tone ... is the last thing that should be considered when selecting a body wood." That's a pretty direct and unambiguous comment on tone. We don't have to have an argument about wood and tone, but you did mention it, there's no doubt on that.
Hopkins
Commercial User
Yes, it is the last thing to be considered, but I never mentioned it before you brought it up to me.
Structure, stability, weight, and aesthetics should all be considered before its tonal characteristics. Because a body woods tonal properties are very subtle if they exist at all.
This is why arguments start in other topics, you made a choice, not a judgement.
just sayin......
let's not get sidetracked.
Once more: Your mention of wood and tone, which I quoted above, were your response to someone else's post, NOT one of mine. For you to say, "I never mentioned [tone] before YOU brought it up to me," is simply untrue. You made your response about wood type being essentially irrelevant to tone in answer to another person's post, and then I made a jocular reference to that, saying, "Oh, one of those guys, eh?" ^_^ Try and keep up here.
Personally, aesthetic considerations generally come last for me. The structure and stability of most bodies nowadays are fine wherever they're coming from, which leaves weight ( a definite consideration) and tone (again, to me a definite consideration). I understand that you have a different opinion about wood tone than I do, and that's okay. We can both trot out various evidence in support of our views, and we already know where that goes. So ... we can argue this if you really want, but I'm not really eager to. Geez, a guy can't even make a little quip ...
Hopkins
Commercial User
Again, this is why I avoid this sub forum. Time to stick to that rule. Have a good day
Or you could like ... actually read what's written ... rather than going off without even knowing who you're addressing. But sure, avoid the "sub forum" if you want.
Why basswood (linden, or lime, in Europe) over poplar? Probably because - according to www. wood-data base.com - poplar is slightly harder to sand really smooth than basswood. Which, on a production line, involves more time, and thus more money. Which makes the bean-counters unhappy. Simple as that. The fact that basswood/linden has been the preferred material for wood carving/sculptures for many, many years probably doesn't hurt, either. 
I'm also one of those who don't put much stock in the Magic of Tonewood - where solid body basses and guitars are concerned. Acoustics and other hollow bodied instruments? Different story. Like a lot of people here, I have a couple of instruments with basswood bodies, and yes, I think they sound perfectly fine - to the extent their pickups and general inexpensiveness will let them. But, they are probably the last things I will tinker with, too. IMO, basswood doesn't lend itself to much of that. The qualities that make is so good for carving and finishing, make it reluctant to hold on to screws really well...
All that aside, if I was going to have a bass made, rather than buy one from a store, I wouldn't pick any of the OP's choices - although, a while back there was a post about a... guitar, I think... that was made from a plywood body (or was it poplar?) with a particle board top and back. Fairly hideous looking, but it sounded amazingly good...
I'm also one of those who don't put much stock in the Magic of Tonewood - where solid body basses and guitars are concerned. Acoustics and other hollow bodied instruments? Different story. Like a lot of people here, I have a couple of instruments with basswood bodies, and yes, I think they sound perfectly fine - to the extent their pickups and general inexpensiveness will let them. But, they are probably the last things I will tinker with, too. IMO, basswood doesn't lend itself to much of that. The qualities that make is so good for carving and finishing, make it reluctant to hold on to screws really well...
All that aside, if I was going to have a bass made, rather than buy one from a store, I wouldn't pick any of the OP's choices - although, a while back there was a post about a... guitar, I think... that was made from a plywood body (or was it poplar?) with a particle board top and back. Fairly hideous looking, but it sounded amazingly good...
Hopkins
Commercial User
Or you could like ... actually read what's written ... rather than going off without even knowing who you're addressing. But sure, avoid the "sub forum" if you want.
I read exactly what was written, I am done here, have a good day.
Hopkins
Commercial User
I am not mad, I just refuse to get in an online pissing match with someone who is trying to bait an argument.
Yup, that is sensible.
I'm guilty of arguing my points a bit too adamantly sometimes.
I kind of get your point but not all basswood is equal. I have a JV Squier Precision and although some of them were made of ash, I'm pretty sure it is basswood. It isn't soft at all. The japanese basswood seems to be a bit different and has a bit more grain.
On the other hand I have a japanese made E-series strat that is made from basswood and everything you said about basswood is true, although it is a nice instrument soundwise. From day 1 on some screws of the pickguard didn't hold etc. It was very easy to dent...
Poplar: Even Musicman instruments with a nontransparent finish were made from poplar for some times. I remember when Fender stopped to use poplar on mexican Fenders (about the mid-90s if I remember correctly) and changed to alder, the reason was that there was such a high demand for poplar in the furniture industry that it became more expensive than alder.
No, agathis is Kiefer/pine, basswood is Linde/Limewood. These can't be confused
I think the first time, Fender used Agathis was on chinese and/or indonesian Squiers.
Most japanese guitars and basses were made of basswood for a long time. The Fender FAQ said up until a few years ago:
"Basswood: the principal wood used on many Japanese made instruments."
Poplar is slightly heavier than Alder according to Warmoth, so I see it as a good wood for bodies and not an inferior or cheapy choice.
Alder looks better for the more see through finishes though, right?
My Peavey G Bass is the one bass I have that is Basswood and Peavey chose it for a reason, I think to try to offset the sound of the Graphite/Carbon Composite neck.
I'm sure it is a good grade of Basswood, I just hate that Basswood rates at 410 on the Janka Hardness Chart, right at the bottom!
But Poplar is only 540 and Alder is only 590....so all three are relatively soft.
I like "Swamp Ash" best, the grain on it is great but "Swamp Ash" is apparently a loose term for the softer pieces of Ash grown in warmer wetter weather I think.
Swamp Ash is not really specified on the Janka Hardness Scale.
The harder White Ash samples are listed way higher on the chart at 1320 which puts it sort of near Hard Maple at 1450.
G&L has some beautiful sunburst finishes on Swamp Ash with their Tribute Series basses.
And I think you've been acting pissy, attributing someone else's post to me, refusing to acknowledge that, and then accusing me of trying to "bait" you, when all I did in the first place was make a lighthearted quip. Whatever. You keep saying you're done, but no. How can we miss you when you won't go away? ^_^
Hopkins
Commercial User
The weight differences in alder and poplar are negligible. I have had blanks of alder that were heavier than poplar and vice-versa. Alder is a more attractive wood, in both grain and color. Poplar has an undefined grain with a yellow color with green streaking. It is much better suited for a painted finish. It also has a bit of a tendency to tear out a bit more than alder while working it.
You are right about swamp ash, its a term only used in the guitar/bass industry. Its the same species of ash that grows in areas with loose nutrient rich soil so the tree grows faster. This results in wood that is less dense and a bit softer. Northern ash, grows much slower in tight soil with less nutrients. Both are generic terms only used in guitar building. I don't use ash very often unless specified by a customer. Its difficult to sand level due to the hard/soft grain pattern, and the deep open grain makes finishing troublesome
I knew Poplar/Alder were pretty close plus or minus depending on the piece.
I have worked with some Poplar from Home Depot and it was way different from Oak and Maple for sure.
I know that the grain in Swamp Ash can be knarly but to me that is why it looks so great, so cool with a plain clear coat, so cool with a tobacco sunburst.
