Tbers! Big question: which is a better option to run with a power amp to drive my Eden 2x12 cab? Specifically the Eden do seems to have a pretty flexible eq and reportedly has a great sound. Would it have enough head room when paired with a power amp to drive a hefty cab? What are the pros and cons of either choice? The Eden is cheaper on price and seems like a good option but I'm not sure.
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Bbe tube preamp vs eden di
- Thread starter johnnyPARKER
- Start date
Preamps do not have headroom, poweramps do. Better is subjective. The thing you should be concerned with is what type of signal the poweramp is looking for, and which preamp will provide it.
I don't own the tube BMAX, just the 100% solid state version. And I do own the WTDI. Either will drive any power amp. But the BMAX preamps are totally different animals than the WTDI. The biggest two differences are the Fender-style tone circuits in the BMAX, versus the more modern (and very aggressive) boost/cut circuits in the WTDI; and the Sonic Maximizer in the BMAX versus nothing even close to a Sonic Maximizer in the WTDI. The BMAX is intended to give you an old-style tone balance, though it can do a hi-fi type tone if you know what you're doing. The WTDI, on the other hand, is designed to give you a hi-fi tone and not much else -- it's more or less character-less, which may be an asset or a liability, depending on the sound you're looking for.
The BBE has an effects loop but the WTDI does not.
Also, my BMAX is noisy (slight hum). The hum level depends on the power amp it's paired with, and no it has nothing to do with the physical proximity to or orientation with the amp. Does this happen with the tube version? I have no idea. Check some of the reviews here and elsewhere on the web. This quirk may hurt you in the studio, maybe not, but it won't be even close to audible on stage with everything else going on.
Hope this helps.
The BBE has an effects loop but the WTDI does not.
Also, my BMAX is noisy (slight hum). The hum level depends on the power amp it's paired with, and no it has nothing to do with the physical proximity to or orientation with the amp. Does this happen with the tube version? I have no idea. Check some of the reviews here and elsewhere on the web. This quirk may hurt you in the studio, maybe not, but it won't be even close to audible on stage with everything else going on.
Hope this helps.
Cool! I screwed up the whole concept of headroom, but thanks to the guys who understood what I was asking and answered my question! I just wanted to know if the the wtdi would be able to push or boost the signal output of my bass to a power amp enough to drive my 2x12 Eden cab. From what I'm reading it will get the job done. I might mention that I actually have a Bbe sonic maximizer. The wtdi, maximizer, and power amp setup might be a winner! What are your thoughts?
My main bass is a fender jazz 24 with an 18v aguilar preamp. Do you guys think I will have distortion issues? I saw a few post in that regard.
I wouldn't worry about missing the sonic maximizer, it's a POS and surprisingly not really that different in sound to what the enhance knob does on the eden anyways
The fender tone stack in the BBE can be a bit of a mission to operate unless you have spent a bit of time with it
The eden Hi Fi tone will basically let your bass' tone shine through rather that doing a sansamp job and making your bass (cheap or expensive) sound like every other sansamp rig.
I think the real question you wanna ask yourself is if you are going for a more modern clean sound or a warmer vintage type tone, the Eden does the modern, the BBE does the old school tone better, thats just IMO of course...
The fender tone stack in the BBE can be a bit of a mission to operate unless you have spent a bit of time with it
The eden Hi Fi tone will basically let your bass' tone shine through rather that doing a sansamp job and making your bass (cheap or expensive) sound like every other sansamp rig.
I think the real question you wanna ask yourself is if you are going for a more modern clean sound or a warmer vintage type tone, the Eden does the modern, the BBE does the old school tone better, thats just IMO of course...
Johnny, I've never tested how much voltage either preamp can withstand without going into clipping, but if/when you run into that, you can always turn down the on-board Aguilar preamp. A preamp that can supply VOLTS (!) to a downstream preamp is overkill unless it can be knocked down, either with a gain control on the on-board preamp itself (hopefully your Aguilar has one), or with a pad switch on the preamp the on-board preamp is feeding (the WTDI or the BMAX), with an input on that preamp designed to handle preamp-class signals from a "preamped" (active) BG, or with an active/passive switch on that preamp in place of a separate low-sensitivity input.
You know, that on-board preamp may swing enough voltage to be able to drive your power amp directly. Try it and see what happens. Every bass with an on-board preamp I've tried can achieve usable volume running right into a power amp. Not necessarily enough for a gig, but many times enough for practice or recording via a mic'd amp. The only unknown would be whether you're happy without the tone options an external preamp can offer, but heck, I say it's worth a try.
You know, that on-board preamp may swing enough voltage to be able to drive your power amp directly. Try it and see what happens. Every bass with an on-board preamp I've tried can achieve usable volume running right into a power amp. Not necessarily enough for a gig, but many times enough for practice or recording via a mic'd amp. The only unknown would be whether you're happy without the tone options an external preamp can offer, but heck, I say it's worth a try.
Respectfully disagree with this statement. I can't imagine two control sets (Eden enhance, and BBE Lo Contour and Process knobs) being more different.
Without misdirecting the thread too much, I totally agree that in concept and the way that the two systems work is very different, but to my ear, the effect on the sound is pretty much the same - a mid scoop - and while I understand that this is not simply what the sonic maximizer is doing, I don't see any benefit in using one if I can get the same tonal effect by just cutting my mids at the eq.
Different strokes for different folks I guess, just my opinion.
Man, this why I love talk bass! You guys are giving me great feedback about things that I never considered! I do enjoy the modern tone, having used an Eden wt500 head for some years. I've seen plenty of post about the wtdi faithfully reproducing that tone. However, most of the post spoke studio applications, or running the wtdi through the power section or fx loop of an bass amplifier/head. Obviously I'm not that tech savvy so I didn't want to rely on my on judgement to ascertain whether or not this would translate to usage with a power amp ( pa amp). I think I feel confident enough to make a purchase!
In my experience, the Bbe maximizer kinda boosts the lows and makes the highs more shimmery, rather than scooping the mids.
Yep, that's more or less true. Except the Sonic Maximizer's controls do a lot more than just play with EQ curves. And the WTDI enhance control does a bit more EQ-wise than simply scoop. There are discussions of both in their respective threads. But basically you've got the idea.
If you can get the BBE for a crazy cheap deal I'd suggest you go the route of getting both, setting your poweramp rack up with its own preamp and using the WTDI so you have it on tap. I use a WTDI and while I love its tone I also get fantastic results with my other gear.
The WTDI fits in a gigbag and works great in a pinch when you can't bring your rack.
I would urge you to have both oldschool and modern tones on tap if it's in your budget.
The compressor on the WTDI trumps sonix maximization for Yours Truly. I haven't tried the BBE compressor, but I gather that it does something just a little differently than the Eden comp. If you still have to choose one or the other, I think that's a better area of inquiry than the sonic max/tonestack one. You'll learn either just fine in time provided you really play around with your gear.
The WTDI fits in a gigbag and works great in a pinch when you can't bring your rack.
I would urge you to have both oldschool and modern tones on tap if it's in your budget.
The compressor on the WTDI trumps sonix maximization for Yours Truly. I haven't tried the BBE compressor, but I gather that it does something just a little differently than the Eden comp. If you still have to choose one or the other, I think that's a better area of inquiry than the sonic max/tonestack one. You'll learn either just fine in time provided you really play around with your gear.
- Feb 9, 2012
- 349
- 11
- Disclosures
- Authorized Builder: fEARful bass, greenboy designs, Bill Fitzmaurice
Most power amps can be driven with -6dBu or even -10, so I wouldn't worry too much about the gain. Either preamp will do the job.
I almost bought the Eden. I got turned off my some bad reviews for reliability and at the same time I came across a MAX-T at a great price. I used Eden exclusively for about 10 years and never had a problem. I own (and use regularly) the BBE Bmax-T.
Pros:
- Eq is simple, but very versatile
- DI is excellent. It uses a transformer, which is great if you are sending signals a long distance to PA for live use. nice isolation.
- Personally, I like the sonic maximizer. The two controls act like a "bass boost" and "bright", but appear to be more dynamic. You can read up on the BBE website, so I won't bother regurgitating.
- Also, I sometimes run music through my rig and the sonic max really helps to fine-tune the tone that normally wouldn't sound right for bass.
-I like semi-parametric control for the mids. especially if you use different basses--electric, fretless, EUB, UB, flatwounds, etc.
- I recently starting using the effects loop for my "time" effects: phase, flange, chorus, and delay. Man, what a difference. It really is a noticeable improvement.
- I have had no reliability problems. I bought this unit used at a steal and have owned it for about a year.
- The preamp is versatile. One of my bands does only covers and I need a wide variety of tones. With the BBE and my fEARful 1515/66, I can recover the tone of just about any stack I've owned in the past (and then some).
Cons:
- (not really a con, but a warning) the output is totally flat if you want it to be. It will pass very low frequency signals to your power amp. Make sure you have a power amp with high pass filtering capabilities or you could damage your cab. I use a Crown XTI, which has built in DSP, so no problem.
- the stock tube is "just ok". the gain circuit does not drive the tube so hard that you can get any real distortion, but it can sound messy if you turn past 12 o'clock. I like the gain at about 10. One of these days I'll get around to substituting some NOS tubes I've liked in the past.
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I suggest you try the solid state version. It is half-price and some people actually like it better. It also has a different DI, but if you are just running into your power amp in the same rack, the ss version will be fine. When I got the BMAX-T it was at a time when BBE could not keep up with demand and there were no ss versions to be found.
Cheers and happy shopping.
I almost bought the Eden. I got turned off my some bad reviews for reliability and at the same time I came across a MAX-T at a great price. I used Eden exclusively for about 10 years and never had a problem. I own (and use regularly) the BBE Bmax-T.
Pros:
- Eq is simple, but very versatile
- DI is excellent. It uses a transformer, which is great if you are sending signals a long distance to PA for live use. nice isolation.
- Personally, I like the sonic maximizer. The two controls act like a "bass boost" and "bright", but appear to be more dynamic. You can read up on the BBE website, so I won't bother regurgitating.
- Also, I sometimes run music through my rig and the sonic max really helps to fine-tune the tone that normally wouldn't sound right for bass.
-I like semi-parametric control for the mids. especially if you use different basses--electric, fretless, EUB, UB, flatwounds, etc.
- I recently starting using the effects loop for my "time" effects: phase, flange, chorus, and delay. Man, what a difference. It really is a noticeable improvement.
- I have had no reliability problems. I bought this unit used at a steal and have owned it for about a year.
- The preamp is versatile. One of my bands does only covers and I need a wide variety of tones. With the BBE and my fEARful 1515/66, I can recover the tone of just about any stack I've owned in the past (and then some).
Cons:
- (not really a con, but a warning) the output is totally flat if you want it to be. It will pass very low frequency signals to your power amp. Make sure you have a power amp with high pass filtering capabilities or you could damage your cab. I use a Crown XTI, which has built in DSP, so no problem.
- the stock tube is "just ok". the gain circuit does not drive the tube so hard that you can get any real distortion, but it can sound messy if you turn past 12 o'clock. I like the gain at about 10. One of these days I'll get around to substituting some NOS tubes I've liked in the past.
----------------
I suggest you try the solid state version. It is half-price and some people actually like it better. It also has a different DI, but if you are just running into your power amp in the same rack, the ss version will be fine. When I got the BMAX-T it was at a time when BBE could not keep up with demand and there were no ss versions to be found.
Cheers and happy shopping.
