BEAD to improve technique?

[RJC1811]

I think I may have stumbled on a great learning tool. I'm buying a 5 string from a fellow forum member and because of my crazy schedule I asked for him to delay shipping the bass until someone would be home to sign for it. In the interim I'm anxious to start my 5 string journey. I tuned one of my 4 strings (Fender CIJ Jaguar if it matters) to BEAD. Same 45-105 strings. Needless to say things are pretty loose. BUT what I have found is that if I am fingering cleanly with my left hand and playing light and consistent with my right it sounds pretty good.

I haven't taken it to practice, I probably couldn't maintain that technique in real time for a whole practice but for practicing by myself I think it really helps.

Anyone else ever try this? On purpose or by circumstance like me?

Give it a try and tell us what you think.

 

[Marcury]

I really don't think this is going to serve you at all.

 

[MrLenny1]

I agree with Marcury.
De-tuning the E to B will give you no string
feel for a real B.
Ain't nothing like the real thing.

 

[Technotitclan]

Agreed that this setup will not prepare for a 5 sting I do think it will aid in right hand technique over all. learning a lighter touch never hurt anyone. This will not help you with learning the true tension of a B string or with physically having that extra string there. I think what happened here is the OP indented on one thing but ended up discovering something completely different. Essentially what is happening here is similar to forcing yourself to change your right hand method by going from heavy to ultra light strings.

OP, I do have this sort of thing going on all the time as all my basses have wildly different gauges while all using the same tuning.

 

[Feral Feline]

I really don't think this is going to serve you at all.

I agree with Marcury.
De-tuning the E to B will give you no string
feel for a real B.
Ain't nothing like the real thing.

I think you're both missing the point of the OP's post. In the attempt to accomplish one thing, something else was achieved. The sloppy floppy BEAD tuning using the original EADG strings is forcing the OP to approach PRACTICING the instrument differently; it's no longer about trying to emulate the feel of a low B on a 5-string or a dedicated BEAD instrument (with heavier gauge strings), it's become about technique with an accurate light touch – nothing more than a practice tool:

... what I have found is that if I am fingering cleanly with my left hand and playing light and consistent with my right it sounds pretty good... for practicing by myself I think it really helps...

If practicing with a floppy-stringed instrument makes the OP play more accurately with better control of dynamics/touch, then I think it will serve the OP very well for when playing a properly gauged 4- or 5-string. Whatever works to improve your playing and gives you the ability to communicate a musical idea/emotion – that's the real deal.

 

[Bassy Mark]

It will also remind him that the low string is not an E. That's probably the biggest shift one has to make aside from the wider neck.

 

[Marcury]

I think you're both missing the point of the OP's post. In the attempt to accomplish one thing, something else was achieved. The sloppy floppy BEAD tuning using the original EADG strings is forcing the OP to approach PRACTICING the instrument differently; it's no longer about trying to emulate the feel of a low B on a 5-string or a dedicated BEAD instrument (with heavier gauge strings), it's become about technique with an accurate light touch – nothing more than a practice tool:


If practicing with a floppy-stringed instrument makes the OP play more accurately with better control of dynamics/touch, then I think it will serve the OP very well for when playing a properly gauged 4- or 5-string. Whatever works to improve your playing and gives you the ability to communicate a musical idea/emotion – that's the real deal.

I have to disagree, learning to play with a light touch on floppy strings really has no application to playing cleanly with strings at full tension. The touch developed will be too light and not translate.

It is better to play with the volume set high and learn how to control dynamics.

 

[Fergie Fulton]

I would agree that the paying benefits will be limited.
A better idea is to learn the new notes you will have access to, by that I mean learn their positions and the new relations you will have.
So for example what notes now all ocuppy the 3rd fret and how would you get from C down to F if you had to?
Better time is spend preparing your mind set to deal with all the new relations you can create with all the notes on the low B.....note just the four new lower ones you never had before, but the 18+ notes you already can p!ay......C to F is easier from the 8th fret not the 3rd fret......or is it?

 

[MalcolmAmos]

+ 1. That is why I stick with standard tuning. I did look at getting a 5 string, but decided the low B would help with standard notation low ledger notes -- which I seldom have a need for so I'm still using a four string.

I use the 8th fret 99% of the time for C - F. I do not mind up a string over two for the G.

 

[RJC1811]

Fergie and Feral got the point of my post. My first purpose was to play along with tunes I regularly play in the original key and start to get the low B in my head. I have read about the transition from 4 to 5 taking weeks or months (I really can't imagine it taking that long). I just wanted a little head start and truthfully I'm just dying to get going on it. The bass is due tomorrow so no more pretending, yeah!

I also felt that as I played and practiced this week the side benefit was having to play much cleaner and with more control. It seemed like a good thing, who knows if it will actually have any lasting benefit. That's all. I didn't expect it to replicate a 5 string or a 135 B at full tension.

If my new bass arrives in time for tomorrows band practice we'll see if the mental part of the exercise was a success.

Thanks,
Bob

 

[Fergie Fulton]

Fergie and Feral got the point of my post. My first purpose was to play along with tunes I regularly play in the original key and start to get the low B in my head. I have read about the transition from 4 to 5 taking weeks or months (I really can't imagine it taking that long). I just wanted a little head start and truthfully I'm just dying to get going on it. The bass is due tomorrow so no more pretending, yeah!

I also felt that as I played and practiced this week the side benefit was having to play much cleaner and with more control. It seemed like a good thing, who knows if it will actually have any lasting benefit. That's all. I didn't expect it to replicate a 5 string or a 135 B at full tension.

If my new bass arrives in time for tomorrows band practice we'll see if the mental part of the exercise was a success.

Thanks,
Bob

Good to hear your reasoning, the bottom line is you cannot play notes you cannot find, or realize are options, unless you know where to find them. Good luck with the fiver and check it is intonated as that !makes all the difference in note choice....if they sound good you will use them.

 

[Lobster11]

A number of years ago I found a good deal on a fiver and decided it would be fun to give it a try. I got pretty frustrated with my inability to make the adjustment -- i.e., "to get that low B in my head" -- and before long gave up and went back to a four. However, it occurs to me now that over the intervening years, I have vastly increased my knowledge of the (4-string) fretboard, as well as for multiple fingering patterns for scales and modes and such. Now I'm thinking that this might make it much easier to make the transition now than it was then. So thanks for this thread: It's inspired me to dig out that bad boy and give it another whirl!

 

[FretNoMore]

I much prefer practising on the same setup and instrument I'm actually going to play, but then again, any playing is better than none, both for your ear and motor skills.

 

[RJC1811]

I much prefer practising on the same setup and instrument I'm actually going to play, but then again, any playing is better than none, both for your ear and motor skills.

No kidding! I made the deal for this bass two weeks ago. Because of my schedule and being out of town there was no one to sign for it. I could have asked a neighbor but what's the point, I wasn't going to be home to play it anyway. I asked the seller to hold it and ship it today when I am finally home to get it. The anticipation has been killing me, I would have loved to have been practicing on THAT bass.

 

[RJC1811]

A number of years ago I found a good deal on a fiver and decided it would be fun to give it a try. I got pretty frustrated with my inability to make the adjustment -- i.e., "to get that low B in my head" -- and before long gave up and went back to a four. However, it occurs to me now that over the intervening years, I have vastly increased my knowledge of the (4-string) fretboard, as well as for multiple fingering patterns for scales and modes and such. Now I'm thinking that this might make it much easier to make the transition now than it was then. So thanks for this thread: It's inspired me to dig out that bad boy and give it another whirl!

Go for it! I am thinking that it's not that hard of an adjustment. We'll see tonight if I pull the bass out of the box, tune it up and head for band practice.

I have been playing my BEAD tuned bass and stopped in a few music stores and played 5 strings and so far so good. It might help that I have to routinely transpose on the fly i.e. I learned the song off the recording but now we are doing it in a different key or the singer is having an issue so we have to drop to a lower key for the night.

Some didn't think much of my detuned practicing idea so this one may not get much appreciation either. I drive a lot (50K miles/yr) for work. I may spend hours just rolling down the interstate. Sometimes I will visualize the fretboard and name the notes up and down the frets. Other times I will visualize arpeggios or walking lines, thinking of new ways to tie the changes together. Also being a guitar player I visualize chord voicings, helps on bass too.

My next idea is to start working on my singing. I'm a terrible singer and I have no intentions of singing lead but just to improve my musicality and maybe get to the point I could sing backup.

 

[Lobster11]

Go for it! I am thinking that it's not that hard of an adjustment. We'll see tonight if I pull the bass out of the box, tune it up and head for band practice.

I have been playing my BEAD tuned bass and stopped in a few music stores and played 5 strings and so far so good. It might help that I have to routinely transpose on the fly i.e. I learned the song off the recording but now we are doing it in a different key or the singer is having an issue so we have to drop to a lower key for the night.

Some didn't think much of my detuned practicing idea so this one may not get much appreciation either. I drive a lot (50K miles/yr) for work. I may spend hours just rolling down the interstate. Sometimes I will visualize the fretboard and name the notes up and down the frets. Other times I will visualize arpeggios or walking lines, thinking of new ways to tie the changes together. Also being a guitar player I visualize chord voicings, helps on bass too.

My next idea is to start working on my singing. I'm a terrible singer and I have no intentions of singing lead but just to improve my musicality and maybe get to the point I could sing backup.

I don't think anyone disagreed that your detuned-practice method might be helpful for your brain and your left hand with respect to learning where the notes are; what some people were questioning was your claim that it might also help with your right-hand touch and technique. (And frankly, I'm with them on that.)

In contrast, I don't think anybody would think your visualization exercises are a bad idea: Many teachers recommend this, and I'm sure lots of folks around here (including myself) do it all the time. (Of course, given that this is TalkBass, I'm sure someone will criticize it!)

Let us know how your first practice with the new bass goes. Good luck!

 

[Feral Feline]

I have to disagree, learning to play with a light touch on floppy strings really has no application to playing cleanly with strings at full tension. The touch developed will be too light and not translate.

It is better to play with the volume set high and learn how to control dynamics.

A valid point. When we practice incorrectly, it reinforces the bad habit which then becomes more difficult to later unlearn. Constantly practicing on the floppies would indeed likely create some issues. However, occasionally practicing on the slackers would at the very least make you think and be more aware of your touch and still enhance the brain-to-finger connection (albeit on a limited level).

Interesting thread. I'll have to slack off one of my Jags' strings to BEAD and see what it's like, then try a 5er in the shops...

 

[Mushroo]

I have gigged and recorded on standard-gauge strings detuned from EADG to BEAD. This tuning is a little floppy but sounds great and is fun to play. I experiment a lot with altered tunings and frequently (as in daily) detune my E string to D or C. The farthest I have ever gone is E tuned down to A, which didn't sound good on its own, but was thunderous when playing octaves with the adjacent A string!

I agree with RJC1811 that low-tension strings are very responsive to variations in touch, and can produce a wonderful sound in the right hands.

 

[RJC1811]

I have gigged and recorded on standard-gauge strings detuned from EADG to BEAD. This tuning is a little floppy but sounds great and is fun to play. I experiment a lot with altered tunings and frequently (as in daily) detune my E string to D or C. The farthest I have ever gone is E tuned down to A, which didn't sound good on its own, but was thunderous when playing octaves with the adjacent A string!

I agree with RJC1811 that low-tension strings are very responsive to variations in touch, and can produce a wonderful sound in the right hands.

Thanks for the validation but I can't take credit for being that creative. I thought the benefit was more in having to play cleaner with my left hand and more consistent (and lighter) with my right.

New bass is still not here but waiting patiently.

 

[Mushroo]

By the way I have played Michael Manring's "Hyperbass" which is strung .020, .032, .042, .052 and, while he has no "standard" tuning, this bass is generally NOT tuned an octave up like a piccolo bass. Manring's career would tend to contradict the "practicing with detuned strings will ruin your chops and creativity" nay-sayers.