Bergantino HT112EX + EX112ER stack

[d00dr]

Dude... Where have I been these past few years? Just got the "legendary" stack yesterday and had a chance to try it out at rehearsal last night. Let me start by saying that I generally run a David Eden WT405 or WT500 through a D215XLT and D215XL or a D810RP. I was a little hesitant with the idea of 2-12"s, thinking that there would be no way it could keep up with my band. Boy was I wrong... way, way wrong. Using my WT405, this little rig CRUSHED. I am so impressed with the amount of sound that these cabs are capable of producing. Absolutely incredible. My band mates couldn't believe that this funny looking little stack behind me was creating all of that bass. Super punchy with amazing low end and crisp, clear highs without any sort of harshness whatsoever. It blows away any sort of combination I've run over the years with my Eden cabs. Color me impressed.

So now, I'm seriously considering selling my D215XL, D215XLT, and my WT500 to fund an IP112. And there just so happens to be one in the classifieds right now. My question is, am I going to notice any difference with an IP112 + EX112ER than I would if I were to seek out an IP112ER? Would the non-ER IP112 be able to handle my low-B with an EX112ER underneath? Is the EX112ER even compatible with an IP112, or would I want a non-ER EX112? Or should I just hold out for an IP112ER?

Sorry for all of the noobish questions. I'm pretty much a Bergantino noob as I've never had a chance to audition any of Jim's cabs before and I'm just seeking out advice from some more experience Bergantino users. Thanks guys!

 

[KJung]

Yes, the EX112ER (without the tweeter) is designed to be used with the IP112ER. The IP112ER is the identical cab as the HT112ER, but with an internal power amp and DSP (Digital Signal Processing that flattens the response and adds significant compression down low to allow very loud output). The IP112ER has a DSP switch that adjusts the voicing of the IP when you add the EX. Pretty cool.

So your plan would work well. The primary complication with the IP is finding a preamp that you like that is also compatible with the input sensitivity of the IP.

I personally would stick to the stack you already have, and get a micro amp with a nice dose of power and a full low end like the GK MB800. That would be killer!

Edit: FYI, the HT112ER's are no longer on the market. The current model (HD112) is the same box and woofer, with a different tweeter... a bit less sizzly and hi fi, a bit more warm and organic up top. Great stuff. Enjoy!

 

[d00dr]

Yes, the EX112ER (without the tweeter) is designed to be used with the IP112ER. The IP112ER is the identical cab as the HT112ER, but with an internal power amp and DSP (Digital Signal Processing that flattens the response and adds significant compression down low to allow very loud output). The IP112ER has a DSP switch that adjusts the voicing of the IP when you add the EX. Pretty cool.

So your plan would work well. The primary complication with the IP is finding a preamp that you like that is also compatible with the input sensitivity of the IP.

I personally would stick to the stack you already have, and get a micro amp with a nice dose of power and a full low end like the GK MB800. That would be killer!

Edit: FYI, the HT112ER's are no longer on the market. The current model (HD112) is the same box and woofer, with a different tweeter... a bit less sizzly and hi fi, a bit more warm and organic up top. Great stuff. Enjoy!

Right on, man! Thanks for the input! So, I should stay away from the IP112, non-ER version? Perhaps just keep my eyes peeled for a IP112ER instead? I feel that I would benefit from a higher powered amp, thus my reasons for looking into the IP112/IP112ER. I strictly play 5'ers, and that's why I'm concerned about a non-ER IP112 vs an IP112ER.

Now I've got to start thinking about the possibility of selling my D810RP and replacing it with an NV412... if I can ever find one.

 

[KJung]

Right on, man! Thanks for the input! So, I should stay away from the IP112, non-ER version? Perhaps just keep my eyes peeled for a IP112ER instead? I feel that I would benefit from a higher powered amp, thus my reasons for looking into the IP112/IP112ER. I strictly play 5'ers, and that's why I'm concerned about a non-ER IP112 vs an IP112ER.

Now I've got to start thinking about the possibility of selling my D810RP and replacing it with an NV412... if I can ever find one.

+1 If you are considering an IP, you would want the IP112ER, NOT the IP112. The ER will match your existing cab, and the IP112ER makes much better use of the IP circuitry than the smaller, more midrange voiced original IP112.

I would again at least try the GK MB800 or MBFusion800 with your ER stack. About the same power as the IP, and EQ and voicing that matches up quite nicely with that stack. That would slam.

 

[chadds]

I would call Jim Bergantino. He offers great service & advice. He can tell you if the DSP of the original IP112 would be appropriate with the slightly larger cab parameters of the EX112ER.

Selecting a preamp can be fun like most gas induced projects around here.

Just read and know the pre has to have an output sensitivity of .775v. This is a common spec for mating pres and mixers to power amps.

Where people run into trouble is when they "believe it should work". They try the line out, the DI out & effects out of an integrated bass head. They try very low end 12ax7 driven preamps, 9v pedal preamp/DIs, channel strips, & computer interfaces. Salesman say, "well the output is +4 so it's "pro level" so it will work."

Too many press sheets for these products say, "more than enough output to drive a power amp."
The output listed is it's max with eq boosted and unit cranked. You want your pre to not develop .775 but do it with moderate signal. IPs are amazing in that they can sound full and intense at very quiet volumes.

Posters will say, "oh this works". Working can equal just adequate in that you can hear your bass. Working can mean seamless integration where every frequency of your bass is present with punch and drummer embarrassing volume in a live setting.

 

[d00dr]

Thanks guys! I really appreciate your input. I'm thinking I should heed your advice and give the GK MB800 a shot. I love the WT405, and the WT500 for that matter, but I really need the extra headroom available from a more powerful amp. Any comments on the MB800 vs the MB Fusion 800?

 

[Red Planet]

I have no experience with either of the MB's but I am totally tickled with the Shuttle 9.0 into two of the ER cabs. OMG gobs of power and authority.

Enjoy!

 

[d00dr]

I have no experience with either of the MB's but I am totally tickled with the Shuttle 9.0 into two of the ER cabs. OMG gobs of power and authority.

Enjoy!

I had a Shuttle 6.0 for a short period of time a couple of years ago. It seemed to be lacking in the low end department, at least compared to my Eden heads. I liked the more modern tone that it provided but I ultimately ended up going back to my WT405 pretty quickly...

 

[Type-55]

I had a Shuttle 6.0 for a short period of time a couple of years ago. It seemed to be lacking in the low end department, at least compared to my Eden heads. I liked the more modern tone that it provided but I ultimately ended up going back to my WT405 pretty quickly...

The Eden WT 405 is a outstanding amp.
If you want more power with a little more warmth
and tonal flexibility, ie. 3 band eq the WT 550 is outstanding
with Berg cabs.

 

[d00dr]

The Eden WT 405 is a outstanding amp.
If you want more power with a little more warmth
and tonal flexibility, ie. 3 band eq the WT 550 is outstanding
with Berg cabs.

I agree that the WT405 and WT550 are both incredible heads. I've actually considered picking up a WT550 for quite a while now but it doesn't seem like a big enough jump from the WT405 to justify purchasing. I'll definitely be keeping the WT405 but I'd like to get something that would be about twice as much power, giving me more headroom.

So far, its between the MB800, the MB Fusion 800, and possibly a Streamliner 900 (if I can find one.) Anyone care to weigh in on either of those three heads?

 

[KJung]

I agree that the WT405 and WT550 are both incredible heads. I've actually considered picking up a WT550 for quite a while now but it doesn't seem like a big enough jump from the WT405 to justify purchasing. I'll definitely be keeping the WT405 but I'd like to get something that would be about twice as much power, giving me more headroom.

So far, its between the MB800, the MB Fusion 800, and possibly a Streamliner 900 (if I can find one.) Anyone care to weigh in on either of those three heads?

I'm a big fan of the Streamliner, but NOT with those particular Berg's which are more of a 'hi fi' sort of voicing (deep lows, relaxed mids, super clean and extended upper treble). The Streamliner is all about old school, fat tone, and is more at home with a more midrange present cab. It has limited EQ, and can get a bit 'tubby flubby' with cabs that have a lower ratio of midrange to deep bass.

If you can find a used Genz Benz Shuttle Max 9.2., that is the head that many Eden players moved to when Eden kind of imploded a while back. Bright and tight out of the box, but massive EQ (like the WT550/800) that you can dial in for any cab imaginable.

The GK MB800 would be quite impressive with those cabs though. and it is really small!

Edit: I like the look (black) of the GK MBF800, but the addition of the three tubes is quite subtle to me. Nice, and a bit more relaxed up top, but in a mix, not sure if it would be worth the additional money, the larger size (front to back), and having the potential drama of preamp tubes.

 

[interp]

I've been running the same ER stack you have for about four years now and I love it. I use a WW Stereo bridged into this stack.

Even at the highest volumes the Bergies have never let out so much as a whimper.

That said, I too am very curious about trying an IP112ER. If you find someone with two for sale let me know .

 

[d00dr]

I'm a big fan of the Streamliner, but NOT with those particular Berg's which are more of a 'hi fi' sort of voicing (deep lows, relaxed mids, super clean and extended upper treble). The Streamliner is all about old school, fat tone, and is more at home with a more midrange present cab. It has limited EQ, and can get a bit 'tubby flubby' with cabs that have a lower ratio of midrange to deep bass.

If you can find a used Genz Benz Shuttle Max 9.2., that is the head that many Eden players moved to when Eden kind of imploded a while back. Bright and tight out of the box, but massive EQ (like the WT550/800) that you can dial in for any cab imaginable.

The GK MB800 would be quite impressive with those cabs though. and it is really small!

Edit: I like the look (black) of the GK MB800, but the addition of the three tubes is quite subtle to me. Nice, and a bit more relaxed up top, but in a mix, not sure if it would be worth the additional money, the larger size (front to back), and having the potential drama of preamp tubes.

I was hoping you would chime in again I really appreciate you taking the time to answer all of my silly, n00bish questions. I've read that the Streamliner is quite picky about what cabs it likes to play nice with and I was hoping these ER's would be a good match. Oh well. Good news is, I can't seem to find one anywhere anyway...

I was wondering how big of a difference there is between the MB800 and the MBF800 but, based on your description, its not a huge difference in overall tone. I may just have to scoop up an MB800 and see for myself.

As far as the Genz Benz stuff goes, I had a Shuttle 6.0 for a brief period of time a couple of years back but I just couldn't quite take to liking it. I much preferred my WT405. But if you're recommending the Shuttle 9.2, I might have to seek one out and give it a shot as well. You've been full of great advice and information for me so far, and for that I'm very grateful.

 

[KJung]

I was hoping you would chime in again I really appreciate you taking the time to answer all of my silly, n00bish questions. I've read that the Streamliner is quite picky about what cabs it likes to play nice with and I was hoping these ER's would be a good match. Oh well. Good news is, I can't seem to find one anywhere anyway...

I was wondering how big of a difference there is between the MB800 and the MBF800 but, based on your description, its not a huge difference in overall tone. I may just have to scoop up an MB800 and see for myself.

As far as the Genz Benz stuff goes, I had a Shuttle 6.0 for a brief period of time a couple of years back but I just couldn't quite take to liking it. I much preferred my WT405. But if you're recommending the Shuttle 9.2, I might have to seek one out and give it a shot as well. You've been full of great advice and information for me so far, and for that I'm very grateful.

The Shuttle 6 is my least favorite Genz head. That original version was really low end attenuated to work optimally with those original small Shuttle cabs. The 6.2 and all the 9 series amps are quite a bit fatter down low. However, as with any line of heads, they do all have that signature Genz 'tight and bright' voicing.

If you could swing a Puma900, that would most likely make you VERY happy with those cabs IMO. Spendy though.

 

[ppal]

I love my Eden WTX500 with my (2)CN112's stack, its an awesome mini for sure!! the tone is AMAZING

 

[SanDiegoHarry]

I have been running an Ashdown ABM500 head into two Epifani 2x10s - but was annoyed at the scooped nature of these cabs (though the lows they produce are just insane) as well as the backbreaking mass of this kit (I'm over 50, y'all!) - - so I just picked up a Berg 1x12NV and got a great deal on a Genz shuttle 6.2 - I have to say I'm impressed. Nice and fat but with good high end - works great for slapping as well as fingerwork. I'm sold on berg and will likely buy a 2nd 1x12NV shortly.

 

[KJung]

I have been running an Ashdown ABM500 head into two Epifani 2x10s - but was annoyed at the scooped nature of these cabs (though the lows they produce are just insane) as well as the backbreaking mass of this kit (I'm over 50, y'all!) - - so I just picked up a Berg 1x12NV and got a great deal on a Genz shuttle 6.2 - I have to say I'm impressed. Nice and fat but with good high end - works great for slapping as well as fingerwork. I'm sold on berg and will likely buy a 2nd 1x12NV shortly.

No 112NV exists. I assume you have the CN112, which is a wonderful, wonderful thing! Those cabs and the Shuttle 6.2 are awesome for sure!

 

[d00dr]

I love my Eden WTX500 with my (2)CN112's stack, its an awesome mini for sure!! the tone is AMAZING

I'd imagine that little rig sounds stellar! Again though, the WTX500 isn't a big enough jump from the WT405 for me to justify purchasing. I'm looking for something in the 800-900 watt range, to give me quite a bit more headroom... glad to hear the Eden/Berg combo is working out for you! Good stuff!

 

[ppal]

Check out the Epifani UL501, that's in the 800-900 watt range and sounds amazing... Big tonal footprint on this amp and super quick. I used to have the Markbass TA503 with some HT112's and those sounded great too, so maybe any of the Markbass gear in that 800 watt range would work. the Genz Benz gear always sounded sterile to my ear, same with the TechAmp Puma's…and I really wanted to like them (love the look and the lightweight) but always sounded on the sterile side even with the "Taste" control, IMHO

 

[SCT1422]

Another vote for the Shuttle 9.2 with these cabs or the HD-112's I'm using with it...