Bergantino series clarification

Discussion in 'Amps and Cabs [BG]' started by HeavyJazz, Jul 15, 2013.

  1. HeavyJazz

    HeavyJazz Supporting Member

    Jan 26, 2013
    Central Virginia
    Presently the Bergs ship in one of three different series:


    There is however, several other generations which you will find from time to time here on TB or the FeeBay... Can somebody offer a low down as to each series? That'd be a nifty little key to have.

  2. Fuzzbass

    Fuzzbass P5 with overdrive Gold Supporting Member

    Off the top of my head:

    HT - The first Berg series I encountered. Modern design with large high-frequency driver.

    HS - shallow (15" deep, I think) but still pack a wallop. I believe the HS is for High Sensitivity

    IP - Intelligent Power, maybe? Powered speakers with DSP that ensured proper response at any volume. Amazing hi-fi speakers, but too expensive for many.

    AE - Jim's first neodymium iteration

    Footnote: the excellent Sadowsky SA bass cabs were designed by Jim Bergantino for the amazing SA-200 all-tube bass amp.
  3. I did a search for some of my earlier posts on this, but they were out of date, so here goes again! I'm a massive Berg fan!

    Current line:

    HD... 'High Definition'. This is Jim's current 'modern ceramic' line (210, 410, 112, 212). The HD 10 loaded cabs are based on the previous HS (High Sensitivity) line and are pretty similar (a bit brighter up top). The HD112 replaces the HT112ER (same driver, same box size, smoother, more organic/natural tweeter). The HD212 is a totally new box. Both the current HD 10's and the previous HS10's were revisions of the original SA (Sadowsky) 410 and 210, which were 'tighter voiced' versions designed to work with the Sadowsky tube head. He basically extended the low end a bit (with a driver modification) for the HS line, and then did another tweak and added 12 loaded cabs to the current HD line. The HD 10's are round and warm and punchy, the 12's are big and open and smooth.

    CN 'Carbon Neo'. This is Jim's current neo line, and consists of a 112 and 212. Quite different in voicing from the discontinued AE line. They are punchy, mid present, nice round low end, and the same tweeter as the HD line, resulting in a smooth, organic, well integrated, non sizzly tweeter. Amazing cabs.... punchy like the HD 10's, but bigger down low, and WAY lighter. The 'carbon' part of the name comes from the 'carbon patterned tolex', and is meant to communicate 'lightweight, cutting edge.

    NV 'New Vintage'. Currently, there is a new 115 with mid driver and a 610 in the line-up. These cabs are both sealed, no tweeters, and are meant to be an improvement (weight and frequency response) on 'classic/vintage' sealed cabs, while still retaining some of that unique sealed cab vibe. Ceramic, not lightweight in an absolute sense, but smaller and lighter than the classic cabs that inspired them. There were three additional cabs in the line that were discontinued...NV215, NV425, and NV412.

    * Note: The CN112/CN212 and the HD112/HD212 are basically the same boxes (virtually the same size), with the neo versus ceramic drivers, and hence weight, as the main difference (along with the tonal differences described above). The HD line of cabs has a spray on finish like the discontinued AE's. The CN has tolex.

    Older, discontinued lines:

    HT (don't know what that stands for... can't remember:p). Lots of different cabs through the years in this line... HT210, HT115, HT310, HT212, HT322, modular HT322 (HT210s/EX112s), HT112s, and the HT112 and HT112ER and probably a few more that I forgot. They all sounded a bit different, but, except for the very mid present and very small HT112, they were deep, mid polite, and very hi fi up top. As mentioned above, the HT112ER was recently replaced by the HD112, which is the only 'HT inspired' cab left in the current line-up (same woofer, same box, different tweeter).

    AE 'Advanced Engineering' Jim's first neo line. Consisted of a 410, a 210, a 112 and a 212. The 410 and the original 'horizontal' AE210 were very 'tight and bright', as was the original AE112... grindy, punchy. The revised AE112b and the revised vertical AE210 had significantly revoiced crossovers that made them much smoother and more relaxed (I feel the AE210v is one of the best sounding cabs Jim has ever produced). The AE212 was VERY big down low (i.e., low end extended), relaxed in the mids, and relatively hi fi up top, so in a way, a bit like the older HT cabs.

    IP 'Intelligent Power' Basically, self powered HT212, HT112 (first the original small HT112, then the larger, low end expanded HT112ER) and HT310, with 1000 watt class D/SMPS ICE power modules, and DSP (digital signal processing) circuitry that provided EQ flattening and selective multi-band compression that made these cabs very loud and quite even sounding. Required a preamp.

    SA 'Sadowsky' 410 and 210 cab line designed by Jim to match with the Sadowsky tube head. Even though they were ported and had tweeters, they were voiced to kind of mimic a sealed 10 'all tube amp friendly' design... very tight and punchy.

    HS 'High Sensitivity' 410 and 210 ceramic.... slight revision, update of the SA cabs after Roger discontinued his SA amp line. Still very efficient (hence the name) like the SA's designed for the relatively low powered Sadowsky tube head, but with slightly revised drivers to allow for a bit more low end meat, making them work optimally with moderate powered solid state heads. The HS line, as mentioned above, was discontinued and merged into the new HD line (which included another minor revision of the 210 and 410 for a bit more presence up top, and the addition of 12 loaded cabs)

    I think that covers the waterfront pretty well.

    JamesDC and DinnerWithAGypsy like this.
  4. nutdog

    nutdog when I'm a good dog they sometimes throw me a bone

    Feb 19, 2009
    in the dog house
    And the NV425 (3 tens and a 15). I don't know how 4, 2 and 5 equate to 3, 10 and 15.:)
  5. Forgot about that one... I'll update my NV above so that it is accurate. Thanks! Yeah, never could figure out the name logic on that one!
  6. nutdog

    nutdog when I'm a good dog they sometimes throw me a bone

    Feb 19, 2009
    in the dog house
    That post should be a nice resource. Thanks for taking the time.
  7. Thanks. I'll continue to update/fix as the Berg fans post up.

    Bowlus, what did I screw up?:D (edit: Purposefully did not include any one-off prototypes that only you own!)

    Anyone know what 'HT' stands for? 'High Technology' maybe. Can't remember. I fixed my IP to 'Intelligent Power' (which I remember now with a little help from Fuzzbass's post.
  8. Forrrest


    Mar 10, 2013
    this thread pops up every 4 months. Jim should put a page on his website - discontinued models.
  9. Fuzzbass

    Fuzzbass P5 with overdrive Gold Supporting Member

    Four speakers total (4), fifteen plus ten (25)...?? :confused:

    Though 445 might work a little better, or even 450 (3*10*15). :p
  10. nutdog

    nutdog when I'm a good dog they sometimes throw me a bone

    Feb 19, 2009
    in the dog house
    I've learned my lesson. No more math on TB. :)
  11. mrcircle

    mrcircle peacenik Supporting Member

    Oct 3, 2003
    Boise, ID
    Oh, it's simple: 310+115=425.
    CameronJohnson likes this.
  12. bassfuser


    Jul 16, 2008
    What is the difference between the AE210v and the AE210? Is it tweeter placement?
  13. nutdog

    nutdog when I'm a good dog they sometimes throw me a bone

    Feb 19, 2009
    in the dog house
    I see, said the blind man.:)

    V stands for vertical. I'm not sure that it's an "official" designation. The first 210's sat on the long side and the handles were on the short side. Later, the feet were put on the short side and the handles on the long side. I believe the crossover was changed (improved?) also. Shortly after they were discontinued when neodymium costs went up.




  14. +1 to Nutdog's post. Basically, Jim revised the crossover to result in a bit less aggressive top end, and a more even voicing. At the same time, since so many were using these cabs as stand-alone small rigs, he moved the handles and logo and feet to allow more easily for vertical use, which means the top driver a bit higher for near field monitoring, a smaller stage footprint, and a smidge better dispersion of the upper midrange.

    Edit: The original AE210 sounds darn good also, just a bit 'bright' up top for me relatively to low end.
  15. HeavyJazz

    HeavyJazz Supporting Member

    Jan 26, 2013
    Central Virginia
    I would be interested in hearing any comments from those who have audtioned the new Berg NV115. I wonder if this would be a nice alternative to two 1x12s...
  16. Fuzzbass

    Fuzzbass P5 with overdrive Gold Supporting Member

    My small rig used to be a pair of Berg HT112ER cabs, but I recently switched over to the NV115.

    A single fifteen won't have the volume of two twelves (though I'm sure it's close). In fact my number one rig, especially for loud rock gigs, will continue to be my NV610. But I grabbed the NV115 because I wanted the sealed NV sound for my small rig as well as my large.

    In short, I'm glad I got it. I gigged it last Saturday and it has the volume I need for my "Motown band", where I compete with guitar, drums, Hammond organ, and five-piece horn section.

    It also has the tone I've wanted. The HT112s were great cabs, clean and flat, but again, I prefer the NV sound. I play five string, and the NV115 has all the lows I want, it's nice and punchy, and for treble I prefer a mid driver to a tweeter.
  17. Useful thread!
    Then, there's some prototypes floating around. I have a 2X12 sealed (no tweeter) that I was going to sell, but love it too much :)
  18. Nice. Bowlus has a few one-offs.... PA subwoofer, an IP15/6, and an HT110, and I'm sure a few others!
  19. nutdog

    nutdog when I'm a good dog they sometimes throw me a bone

    Feb 19, 2009
    in the dog house
    Try the accidentally mistitled thread:

    The NV115 vs 2 twelves could take on many flavors. Lots of comparisons in the thread but the NV sound is kind of it's own thing IMO that you either like or don't. There are 212's (and other cabs) that will produce more sound but it's very good at what it does.