Berkeley Jazz Bass - Modes and Chord tones, a question

[Luigir]

Hi all,

I'm using the book Berkeley Jazz bass to better understand how to build a solid walking bass line.

Unfortunately, I don't quite get the need for modal scales at the moment.

Take a look at the first four bars of Rhythm Changes coming from figure 2.17 of the book.

The progression is Bb Gmi7 Cmi7 F7. And the walking bass line moves following mainly chord tones and passing tones between chords.

Are modes just used as an introduction in this case?

In this case, in fact, we are playing rhythm changes which is in the key of Bb and this key doesn't changes through all the piece.

Thanks in advance for any clarification.

 

[dreamadream99]

It looks to me as though the mode names are simply included for illustration’s sake in the example. You are correct though—if you created a solo over these changes using the recommended modes, you would in fact, simply be playing in the key of Bb the whole time.

 

[MalcolmAmos]

Good point, modes are moods of a scale. In this case Bb.

 

[Mushroo]

Yup, that is the "Berklee chord-scale" style of teaching. I believe there is no "need" to think in modes when playing a diatonic chord progression, but many students find it a helpful learning tool. My advice is, trust the authors (they sure know their stuff!) but be aware there are also many other schools of thought about how to play jazz. Our ideal situation as students is to learn lots of great ideas from many different teachers, and then combine the best of those ideas which speak to us, to develop our own individual styles.

 

[Luigir]

Thanks all for the replies and the sugggestions.

I've found really interesting Chord Tones vs Scale Tones article linked above and the follow up article which suggests a really nice practice routine.

I recommend that advanced improvisers take the following chord-tone soloing test to determine for themselves whether or not they are ready to use the chord-scale approach on a particular tune's progression.

1. Write out the chord progression of a familiar song on manuscript paper. Put the chord symbols above the staff and write out the chord tones in root position on the staff to observe while soloing.

2. Record yourself playing an unaccompanied four- to six-chorus improvised solo at a medium tempo on the chord progression using only chord tones. Try to use all or most of the chord tones of each chord you play on. Include rhythmic variety, syncopation, varied phrase lengths, pacing, dynamics, etc.

3. Transcribe your improvised solo and analyze the function of each melody note as it relates to each chord, being careful to note harmonic anticipations whenever they occur. Write the melody/harmony relationship on the transcription under each melody note.
If your improvised melody is more than 90 percent accurate (e.g., your melody contains nearly all of the chord tones of each chord you played on), it is safe to assume that you are ready to practice improvising on the progression using chord scales. Or, if you prefer, change the tempo and/or the key and repeat the test.

If your improvised melody is less than 90 percent accurate (as is often the case, even with advanced players), it is reasonable to assume that you will benefit from practicing chord-tone soloing on the song's harmony.

 

[MalcolmAmos]

IMO, modes are for melodic work, aka solos. Chord tone bass lines are made from the notes of the active chard plus some notes that let us walk to the next chord.

OK how do you walk to the next chord? Books have been written on just that subject. Because of my Country background most of what I do is a three note chromatic walk. Target the next root, miss it by three frets then walk one fret at a time to it and be on it for the chord change. Timing when to leave on your walk so you hit the chord change dead on is the trick.

I do not walk each chord change. There is a place for a walk and there are places where a walk just gets in the way. I look upon walking as moving to something, as such a walk between verses, chorus, bridge, etc. is effective.

As I said there have been books written on the subject. One you may have missed is Bass Lines in Minutes, by Kris Berg. And of course Ed's Building Walking Bass Lines should be in our stack of how to books. Again IMO.

 

[Whousedtoplay]

My advice is, trust the authors (they sure know their stuff!)

Have you checked their - Berklee School - prices???

be aware there are also many other schools of thought about how to play jazz.

YES!!!

 

[Whousedtoplay]

Thanks all for the replies and the sugggestions.

I've found really interesting Chord Tones vs Scale Tones article linked above and the follow up article which suggests a really nice practice routine.

Here’s my next pet peeve about those “high-cost” courses.
They tend to mix the bass part as a comping instrument (walking bass- line) and as a soloing instrument.

 

[Luigir]

I just want to precise that I'm not attending any Berkeley course. I live in Italy and here musical education is relatively cheap but solid. Most of the teachers in "modern" instruments too have a classical background and a solid theoretical preparation.

Nevertheless, this year I'm studying by myself and I bought this book. By the way, I'm quite a book nerd and I like to read different methods. This was the first time I have seen talking about modes in the context of chord accompaniments and I got confused since my old teacher never mentioned this approach but I guess I was over thinking it.

 

[Whousedtoplay]

Good point, modes are moods of a scale. In this case Bb.

Confused.
Modes are Diatonic.
Modes of the C major scale use only notes from the C major scale!
Are you playing the notes of D Dorian or of G Mixolydian, or the notes of the C major scale?
What is the difference?

 

[Luigir]

Confused.
Modes are Diatonic.
Modes of the C major scale use only notes from the C major scale!
Are you playing the notes of D Dorian or of G Mixolydian, or the notes of the C major scale?
What is the difference?

This is one of the clearer explanation I have found.

To put it simply think about the C major and the A minor scales. They do have the same notes but these notes have different functions.

A scale, or a mode is defined by a succession of tones and semitones and it is called with the name of the starting note:

Major T T S T T T S
C major: C D E F G A B C

Minor T S T T S T T T
A minor: A B C D E F G A

Notice that A minor can be seen as C major starting from A, aeolian mode.
This could be useful in describing pieces of music which are mainly in a certain key but which modulates (I.e. change key) for a bridge or a section.
For example, in the context of a piece written in the key of C major, if for the bridge you are moving to the key of A minor you can say you are moving from the Ionian to the aelonian mode of C major.

I hope I haven't said anything too wrong. Anyway, please correct me if I've done it.

 

[Whousedtoplay]

I hope I haven't said anything too wrong. Anyway, please correct me if I've done it.

]

Sorry for my posting.
It was a diplomatic way of saying that someone else is confused.

 

[Whousedtoplay]

I've been posting so MUCH info about MODES at TB for years, but I still see that so many TB members posting something without solid knowledge of the basics of Modes.
I would highly recommend the following tutorial on Modes - simple but good.

(I've been posting it at TB every other month.)

http://www.lifesmith.com/BHWeb/Music Theory - Advanced.pdf

 

[Luigir]

I still see that so many TB members posting something without solid knowledge of the basics of Modes.

I guess I'm part of this too. I'll read what you suggested.

 

[SteveCS]

So now just two chord tones laid out one after the other under a notional harmonic progression constitutes a mode. Two notes from a chord (R-3 or R-5) to establish a mode then on to the next diatonic chord? What a load of nonsense. Next they will be telling us that a single note is actually a dominant 7th because of its partials...

 

[Whousedtoplay]

What a load of nonsense.

But just look at the PRICE!!!

 

[SteveCS]

But just look at the PRICE!!!

View attachment 3006855

Madness.

 

[Luigir]

So now just two chord tones laid out one after the other under a notional harmonic progression constitutes a mode. Two notes from a chord (R-3 or R-5) to establish a mode then on to the next diatonic chord? What a load of nonsense. Next they will be telling us that a single note is actually a dominant 7th because of its partials...

reading from the site linked above:

Using the chord-scale approach gives improvisers (especially less proficient ones) greater melodic and rhythmic mobility (i.e., they can improvise pitch sequences in eighth notes, triplets, sixteenth notes, etc.). Whereas chord tones must be played in leaps (minor third intervals or wider), a chord scale can be played in steps (major and minor second intervals), and consecutive steps are much easier to play fast and accurately than consecutive leaps.

So I guess they are using this method as a shortcut to improvisation. For what I know, it still seems to me a stretch from a theoretical perspective.

Regarding the prices I guess that if you go to Berkley you are not solely looking for understanding music but for cv, connections etc which are probably more important than the subject itself.

 

[SteveCS]

reading from the linked site:


So I guess they are using this method as a shortcut to improvisation. For what I know, it still seems to me a stretch from a theoretical perspective!

Yeah, a shortcut. In terms of improvisation, knowing a bunch of scales and running it through a set of pre-defined patterns or sequences is a far cry from hearing a note in your head and playing it...

 

[Mushroo]

The author of that article, Hal Crook (who I really enjoy by the way; he puts on a great show) seems to have a keen understanding of what exactly chord-scales are, and what chord-scales aren't:

It is relevant to point out here that the pioneers of jazz improvisation relied on their listening/hearing skills and their ability to accurately outline basic chord sound to guide their improvising and to create inspired melodies. They did not rely on the mechanics of chord scales.

In other words, chord-scales aren't how great improvisers actually think. But chord-scales might be a useful learning tool for students at a certain step of their journey. Chord-scales aren't going to give you any great musical ideas, but once you hear a good idea in your mind's ear, your knowledge of chord-scales might help you contextualize that idea within familiar patterns.

Jazz is first and foremost an aural art form.

I'm mushroo and I like italics.