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Best DI box for bass

#2
There are about 3,000 "best bass DI" threads, between here, the recording subforum, the amps subforum, and the effects subforum. Granted, there's no way to use the regular search panel for two-letter words, but the Google TB search will do it, and even without using any search tool you wouldn't have to scroll very far down to find one or two of these threads in recent weeks.

Now that I've got that out of the way, what is your budget? Do you need it to have any extra features such as EQ or boost? What is your definition of "clean"--super ultra clean and dry, or "clean but fat", or "clean like a tube amp that is not overdriven", or ???
 
#9
I used to want to use the amp's DI my own self, until I AB'ed them against my Type 85. The Type 85 blows the amp DI's I've tried away, even without the preamp. But if that's important to you, you can always run it as a speaker DI.
 
#12
JimmyM said:
I used to want to use the amp's DI my own self, until I AB'ed them against my Type 85. The Type 85 blows the amp DI's I've tried away, even without the preamp. But if that's important to you, you can always run it as a speaker DI.
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I dunno, Jim - IME, the Post-Gain DI send for the 700rb-II and the GBE 600 compares quite well to the 85...


IMO, Ampeg's DI's leave a bit to be desired, though...




- georgestrings
 
#13
I prefer the J48 over the Type 85 by a bit, but when I compared them I don't think I remembered to reverse the polarity of the 85 (it's pin 3 hot). Let's say that both are very good reasonably affordable DIs.

If money is tight and you can't find a used deal on the above, a Pro48 would be the ticket. Or an Audiopile.net active DI if bucks are really tight.

If the bass is active, I might try a JDI or ProDI, as this should eliminated any possibility of a ground loop (a Pro48 has given me a loop, but IIRC only on Behringer amps - but the bass rig was for sure on a different outlet than any of the PA).
 
#14
Pin 2 hot or pin 3 "hot" doesn't matter one bit. Without knowing how the polarity of the bass and the bass's internal electronics are wired, along with any polarity inversions in the PA and it's processing AND then considering any time offset relative to the bass rig, there's no way to predict anything. I would expect that absolute polarity is probably a crapshoot with about 1/2 being closer one way and 1/2 being the other way if you tested all bass rigs relative to the PA phase.
 
#16
JimmyM said:
I've heard Genz Benz has a really good DI in all their heads. Never compared the Countryman to the one in Gk heads, so I'll take your word for it.
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Well, for a frame of reference - I owned and probably put over 100 gigs on a Radial JDI before deciding that it was expendable - because it's performance wasn't any better than I could get from my heads or the XDR-95... I've also gigged the Countryman and J48 a few times, so I've done a little comparing along the way...



- georgestrings
 
#17
agedhorse said:
Pin 2 hot or pin 3 "hot" doesn't matter one bit. Without knowing how the polarity of the bass and the bass's internal electronics are wired, along with any polarity inversions in the PA and it's processing AND then considering any time offset relative to the bass rig, there's no way to predict anything. I would expect that absolute polarity is probably a crapshoot with about 1/2 being closer one way and 1/2 being the other way if you tested all bass rigs relative to the PA phase.
Click to expand...


Manufacturers seem to be a lot better about keeping this right than they use to. And it certainly makes a difference in how something sounds. The vagaries of the system may make the difference much more subtle than it should be, but seldom do I find that I don't have a preference, especially if there's not a stage amp and PA giving multiple arrival times.

When I had my old wedges, and when I had an acoustic player running through the monitors, I used to always ask them "this or that", not telling them what I was doing, which was reversing the polarity. They always had a preference, and it was always consistent between people. This is how I figured out that my old wedges were polarity reversed.
 
#18
TimmyP said:
Manufacturers seem to be a lot better about keeping this right than they use to. And it certainly makes a difference in how something sounds. The vagaries of the system may make the difference much more subtle than it should be, but seldom do I find that I don't have a preference, especially if there's not a stage amp and PA giving multiple arrival times.

When I had my old wedges, and when I had an acoustic player running through the monitors, I used to always ask them "this or that", not telling them what I was doing, which was reversing the polarity. They always had a preference, and it was always consistent between people. This is how I figured out that my old wedges were polarity reversed.
Click to expand...

Tim - you are confusing two completely different things and completely different instruments without considering all the variables which are generally unknown.

1. We can not assume that the output from the pickup or the pickup's electronics is non-inverting. It depends on the mounting technique, wiring of the pickup and the electronics involved.

2. I was talking specifically about an EB application, an acoustic "anything" instrument may have polarity influences due to the body pickking up and redistributing the acoustic energy back into the audio, BUT this must be determined emperically because there is too much variability to make an accurate general statement.

3. Any pedals or processing added into the signal path provides an opportunity to alter the polarity. Some processing inverts for processed but non-inverts for bypass which adds an additional variable on the fly.

4. In a recording environment (open loop), there should be no practical audible difference unless the bass is set up with a lot of asymmetry in the pickup and even then, it will be a crapshoot which way sounds "better" because of additional opportunities for phase inversion in the recording chain.

5. For acoustic guitar, we do include polarity reversal switches because of the interaction between the acoustic energy coming from the speaker being picked up by the body of the gtr and being reamplified. A REAL out of phase signal relationship between the speaker and the signal path will improve gain before feedback but can also make the instrument feel a little dead. It's a tradeoff where usually reversed polarity is a better choice. This is of course a closed loop application.

6. Things get even more complicated when stage monitors and a PA are concerned, the multiple arrival times generally make the issue of absolute polarity almost completely a wash unless one sound sourse is VERY dominant and the instrument is acoustically coupled to the environment.

7. Hearing a difference and hearing a meaningful difference have an important distinction in my book.
 
#19
agedhorse said:
Tim - you are confusing two completely different things and completely different instruments without considering all the variables which are generally unknown.

1. We can not assume that the output from the pickup or the pickup's electronics is non-inverting. It depends on the mounting technique, wiring of the pickup and the electronics involved.

2. I was talking specifically about an EB application, an acoustic "anything" instrument may have polarity influences due to the body pickking up and redistributing the acoustic energy back into the audio, BUT this must be determined emperically because there is too much variability to make an accurate general statement.

3. Any pedals or processing added into the signal path provides an opportunity to alter the polarity. Some processing inverts for processed but non-inverts for bypass which adds an additional variable on the fly.

4. In a recording environment (open loop), there should be no practical audible difference unless the bass is set up with a lot of asymmetry in the pickup and even then, it will be a crapshoot which way sounds "better" because of additional opportunities for phase inversion in the recording chain.

5. For acoustic guitar, we do include polarity reversal switches because of the interaction between the acoustic energy coming from the speaker being picked up by the body of the gtr and being reamplified. A REAL out of phase signal relationship between the speaker and the signal path will improve gain before feedback but can also make the instrument feel a little dead. It's a tradeoff where usually reversed polarity is a better choice. This is of course a closed loop application.

6. Things get even more complicated when stage monitors and a PA are concerned, the multiple arrival times generally make the issue of absolute polarity almost completely a wash unless one sound sourse is VERY dominant and the instrument is acoustically coupled to the environment.

7. Hearing a difference and hearing a meaningful difference have an important distinction in my book.
Click to expand...

All naturally occurring (not created by electronic waveform generators) musical waveforms are asymmetrical. Thus, polarity is meaningful if you can hear the difference.

In my experience, if you cannot hear the difference, something is wrong with the system on which you are listening to the A-B.

In my experience, most gadgets are polarity correct.
 
#20
IMO and IME, absolute polarity is not distinguishable (unless clipping on an asymmetrical amplifier is causing other effects).

There is nothing wrong with any of the systems I have experimented on either, nor is there anything wrong with my lab test setup which is designed for these types of comparisons.

Here's some food for thought... if (absolute) polarity was that important, then each half of a symmetrical waveform would sound different. They just don't. The proof of this is to invert the signal of a pure sine wave and listen to the inverted versus non-inverted tone. There are no differences unless there are gross distortions due to (REALLY) poor amplifier design.
 

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