Best extension for Rumble 500

[Lobster11]

Only is a VERY strong word that suggests that it can NEVER work, which is utter BS.

Properly designed speakers of different diameter can in fact work well together and in some instances can be designed to work BETTER than either driver alone in a system. Backwoods simplistic thinking (or lack of thinking) leads the mixed driver police to make erroneous conclusions based on a lack of COMPLETE understanding of the electro-acoustic system.

It depends on working out the math, and verifying the model in an actual acoustic space. Something real engineers are equipped to do, and back up their work with successful products that do not exhibit the horrors predicted by overly simplistic thinking.

Of course there are examples of mixed driver cabinets sounding horrible, but there are plenty of examples of identical driver cabinets sounding equally as horrible. It;s not the mixed driver issue that's responsible for the results.

OK, sure, you got me on a technicality and I stand corrected. But I don't think that invalidates my main point, which is that if you already have a 2x10 you don't "need" a 1x15 to pair with it so the 15 will provide the lows and the 10s will handle the highs and midrange. OP was worried that a 2x10 would sound "plinky," so he would need a 1x15 to compensate. Beyond that, I was just speculating on why so many people (including sales people in music store) continue to believe this.

 

[agedhorse]

OK, sure, you got me on a technicality and I stand corrected. But I don't think that invalidates my main point, which is that if you already have a 2x10 you don't "need" a 1x15 to pair with it so the 15 will provide the lows and the 10s will handle the highs and midrange. OP was worried that a 2x10 would sound "plinky," so he would need a 1x15 to compensate. Beyond that, I was just speculating on why so many people (including sales people in music store) continue to believe this.

It depends entirely on the 210 and 115.

 

[walterw]

It depends entirely on the 210 and 115.

i think you've made this argument before, positing some sort of extra twangy 2x10 and extra rumbly 1x15, to where the combo might in fact sound better than a matched pair of either one; thing is, who makes those and why would anybody want them? what's the point if the boxes don't sound good by themselves to begin with?

if we assume a normal good-sounding full-range 2x10 and a normal good-sounding full range 1x15, isn't it always the safe bet that matching a pair of either one would always "win" while mixing them may or may not be quite as awesome?

if we're arguing that different cabs from the same product line are made to "work together" (like the rumble 1x15 and 2x10 most likely are) that's cool, but it's a long way from claiming that the combination is as good as a matched pair from that line.

that seems to be where the disconnect is in these threads; years of bogus marketing telling us to put that 1x15 below our 4x10 cabs for "more lows", followed by TB wisdom pushing back by telling us that unmatched stacks will cause you to lose your gig and also make the baby jesus cry.

isn't it still the simplest and safest bet that if you have one bass cab you like then a stack of a second identical cab will produce the best version of that tone at increased volume?

 

[agedhorse]

i think you've made this argument before, positing some sort of extra twangy 2x10 and extra rumbly 1x15, to where the combo might in fact sound better than a matched pair of either one; thing is, who makes those and why would anybody want them? what's the point if the boxes don't sound good by themselves to begin with?

if we assume a normal good-sounding full-range 2x10 and a normal good-sounding full range 1x15, isn't it always the safe bet that matching a pair of either one would always "win" while mixing them may or may not be quite as awesome?

if we're arguing that different cabs from the same product line are made to "work together" (like the rumble 1x15 and 2x10 most likely are) that's cool, but it's a long way from claiming that the combination is as good as a matched pair from that line.

that seems to be where the disconnect is in these threads; years of bogus marketing telling us to put that 1x15 below our 4x10 cabs for "more lows", followed by TB wisdom pushing back by telling us that unmatched stacks will cause you to lose your gig and also make the baby jesus cry.

isn't it still the simplest and safest bet that if you have one bass cab you like then a stack of a second identical cab will produce the best version of that tone at increased volume?

An example that I will use that has been fairly clearly validated by TB players is the Subway 115 combined with the 112. That specific voicing simply wasn't possible with either an identical pair of 12's or 15's, and I wouldn't call either of them "twangy" or "rumble".

Thus is not a black and white issue, there are as many shades of gray as there are different player's preferences in tone and IMO I think it's disrespectful to tell players that something "can't work well" when there are plenty of examples where it not only can but clearly does.

Mixing driver sized doesn't violate any acoustic theory, in fact the acoustic response equations of a speaker system do not even consider driver size, just the electroacoustic parameters. It is entirely possible, IF YOU UNDERSTAND THE THEORY, to design a premium (sounding) speaker system. It's just a little more difficult.

 

[BadExample]

An example that I will use that has been fairly clearly validated by TB players is the Subway 115 combined with the 112. That specific voicing simply wasn't possible with either an identical pair of 12's or 15's, and I wouldn't call either of them "twangy" or "rumble".

Thus is not a black and white issue, there are as many shades of gray as there are different player's preferences in tone and IMO I think it's disrespectful to tell players that something "can't work well" when there are plenty of examples where it not only can but clearly does.

Mixing driver sized doesn't violate any acoustic theory, in fact the acoustic response equations of a speaker system do not even consider driver size, just the electroacoustic parameters. It is entirely possible, IF YOU UNDERSTAND THE THEORY, to design a premium (sounding) speaker system. It's just a little more difficult.

Last Wed. night I got to experience the synergy Andy speaks of by mixing a new 1 x18 with my 1 x 15. I only have had a couple of hours to play with the systems and not yet found the best settings. But, each cab alone sounds very good. Together, with each on it's own level controlled channel, very, very, very good. Biamped is synergistic heaven! I A/B/C/D'd quite a bit, all done with the turn of a knob so there was no long time lapse to change things up in cabling. The only issue I ran across was without biamp, the open D string seemed a hair down on volume, which was resolved in 2 minutes of Eq'ing. Switching back to biamp, the eq did not seem to cause any problem. I did open strings, 12th frets, and played songs. Still need to determine the best crossover frequency and eq settings for biamp.

I also got to experience what Andy has warned me about for ages; my preference of have the amps rated WRMS >= the cabs rated WRMS. In this case, with 8 ohms on its own channel, the Bag End, in all it's bulk, mass and glory is more than 10% over that amps WRMS, so it's running closer to his recommendation, although he might prefer more headroom on the cab. The Bag End is said to have low Xmax, high Xlim and have a great grind when overdriven. So, of course I had to try this out. Cranked the master all the way up to 2, and hit an open B, then E. Holy Cow! That does sound and feel awesome! Scared the hell out of the dogs and rattled the house. I won't be able to do that here, but after I move, I'll be able to play outdoors. So, I'm back to using a John_K modified WH Pork Loin for the overdrive, but that was fun and while I listened and believed what I was told, it certainly drove the point home.

My back hurts. Wheels, must add wheels. Next project.

 

[TheTalMan]

I'm a huge proponent of real life application. I'm gonna take the 500 to the shop and try each for myself. This set up basically needs to push an Octaver through a mix that's likely to include an extended range guitar with high gauge strings that I'll have to work around. I've been in this situation on 10s. If I upped the bass id muddy the lower octave and lose the mid. If I upped everything I'd get a sound I didn't like. I'm not interested in messing with this anymore. So I'm gonna get the 500 as I know it'll do what I need in a small show. If I need to expand I'll take it to the shop and try both. If the additional 10s aren't providing the umph I need and the 15 does then that's where it's at. If it does then great. This isn't a volume issue at this point. It's a preservation of cleanes with an agreeable sound given the effects we're all using.

 

[jmhaslip]

I have only owned cabinets with 15" speakers until I got the 500C last year. I just got the 2X10 ext. cabinet and WHAT A DIFFERENCE!! The effect of having 4 10s stacked adds fullness to the sound. I hesitated for a long time but I'm so glad I got the 2X10 cabinet instead of the 1X15.

 

[Ohmygarth]

For the record I think it depends entirely on the tone you are going for. I have the 500 V3 and have both the 210 and 115. For my alt rock/pop punk band that I play a 4 string p-bass in I prefer the 210, or even just the combo by itself. HOWEVER, for my metal project with a 5 string bass tuned down to A# the 115 gets better tones and has a crushing low end that the 210 doesn't match. So it really depends what you want but if you are a standard bass player the 210 is more practical