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Best mic for basscabinet

#21
BigMac5 said:
I was wondering how long it would take for the DI is better/Use a kick drum mic advice to pop up.
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In venues that I've played that are actually putting a mic on the cab, there has almost ALWAYS been a DI. And in the majority of NYC club gigs that I've played where the bass is going to the FOH mix, the preferred method that I see at almost every venue has been a DI. And that's because there's simply so much bleed on club stages that most mics are inefficient at doing the job of getting a clean bass sound. Mic'ing at any kind of distance is almost completely out of the question.

And truth be told, a mic'd bass cab is not that common on the club scene. And on the rare occassions where I have seen the bass amp mic'd in addition to a DI, the AKG D112 has been used from time to time. Ask a FOH engineer why. They'll blend the DI and the mic, and get the majority of the bass mix from the DI with the mic to add in some grit and woof. Is the D112 the best mic for the job? That's certainly debatable. But it is one of the more readily available mics on hand for FOH engineers at a wide number of venues.
 
#22
ShoeManiac said:
In venues that I've played that are actually putting a mic on the cab, there has almost ALWAYS been a DI. And in the majority of NYC club gigs that I've played where the bass is going to the FOH mix, the preferred method that I see at almost every venue has been a DI. And that's because there's simply so much bleed on club stages that most mics are inefficient at doing the job of getting a clean bass sound. Mic'ing at any kind of distance is almost completely out of the question.

And truth be told, a mic'd bass cab is not that common on the club scene. And on the rare occassions where I have seen the bass amp mic'd in addition to a DI, the AKG D112 has been used from time to time. Ask a FOH engineer why. They'll blend the DI and the mic, and get the majority of the bass mix from the DI with the mic to add in some grit and woof. Is the D112 the best mic for the job? That's certainly debatable. But it is one of the more readily available mics on hand for FOH engineers at a wide number of venues.
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Just because it's rarely done, does not mean it's not done. When I do sound, I prefer to mic the bass cab, but I also have a Radial J48 ready if that's what the bassist prefers. Micking a bass cab is really not as a big deal as many would like to suggest.

Anyways, I just think it is rude to come in to a thread were the OP is looking for recommendations on a mic for a bass cab and recommend a DI. Just like it would be rude for someone to come to thread asking to recommend a DI and say get a mic.


IMHO.
 
#23
Galaxy said:
Wich is the best microphone to mic a basscabinet in live situations??
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This is what the OP asked. And he specifically mentions LIVE SITUATIONS. Am I being presumptuous in assuming that the OP is asking about this in reference to live sound at a club? Perhaps. But given the nature of that original post it seems like a very valid assumption. A FOH engineer working at a level above clubs would be very unlikely to pose such a question here at Talkbass.

Recommending a DI is not rude, despite your protestations. It's a practical, alternate solution that is in wide use, almost to the level of being an industry standard. Standards like that don't exist merely out of philosophical considerations. And the practical reasons for using DI's are numerous:

-DI's are more physically durable than most microphones (except for something as durable as perhaps an SM-57)
-Feedback concerns for the bass are almost completely eliminated
-Bleed from other instruments is non-existant
-Club stages can get tight from a space standpoint, and eliminating another microphone and stand from a stage is not an insignificant consideration
-Clubs with house backlines/cabs that get pushed to their limits may be more prone to having damaged drivers which in turn will affect the signal chain of a mic'd cab

A DI box very nearly eliminates ALL of these concerns. Not mentioning a DI in the course of discussing methods for getting bass into a FOH mix is bordering on intellectually dishonest.
 
#24
ShoeManiac said:
This is what the OP asked. And he specifically mentions LIVE SITUATIONS. Am I being presumptuous in assuming that the OP is asking about this in reference to live sound at a club? Perhaps. But given the nature of that original post it seems like a very valid assumption. A FOH engineer working at a level above clubs would be very unlikely to pose such a question here at Talkbass.

Recommending a DI is not rude, despite your protestations. It's a practical, alternate solution that is in wide use, almost to the level of being an industry standard. Standards like that don't exist merely out of philosophical considerations. And the practical reasons for using DI's are numerous:

-DI's are more physically durable than most microphones (except for something as durable as perhaps an SM-57)
-Feedback concerns for the bass are almost completely eliminated
-Bleed from other instruments is non-existant
-Club stages can get tight from a space standpoint, and eliminating another microphone and stand from a stage is not an insignificant consideration
-Clubs with house backlines/cabs that get pushed to their limits may be more prone to having damaged drivers which in turn will affect the signal chain of a mic'd cab

A DI box very nearly eliminates ALL of these concerns. Not mentioning a DI in the course of discussing methods for getting bass into a FOH mix is bordering on intellectually dishonest.
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Never mind.

Why does someone always have to come in to bass amp microphone threads and start a DI is better argument?
 
#25
At what point did I use the term BETTER? If you're talking about live sound at the club level, you're usually talking about some of the most basic equipment along with sound engineers that may not have the most experience in the field. In terms of pure sound a good/great microphone may very well sound better than a DI. But in order to do so that might also require a good/great mic preamp, too.

A DI may not be best sounding option out of EVERYTHING that's available. But sometimes the best solutions are the simplest. A DI is among the most simple options available for bass when it comes to live sound. In a recording situation, I love microphones. A mic like the RE20 on a B-15 in the studio sounds awesome. But sometimes you need to pick the right tool for the right job.
 
#27
I have to give the OP the benefit of the doubt when he asks which mic is best for live situations. What I mean by that is, he has obviously already made the decision to use a mic (whether it's in a club or whether it's for outdoor gigs). Who am I to tell him to not use a mic when he specifically asked which mic is best for live situations? He didn't ask "should I use a mic, or should I use a DI?" If he would have asked that question, then it would be appropriate to give pros and cons of mic'ing versus DI, and let him weigh the factors when making a choice. But the OP specifically only asked for opinions as to which mics we TB'ers think are best for live performances (as opposed to a controlled recording environment).

I think Shoe was just trying to help the OP, but in his attempt to help, he came across as trying to argue why he thinks DI's are the better way to go.

In my opinion, all the OP wants is info on various mics for bass cab mic'ing. My vote goes to the Heil PR40, and the RE20 is also a good one.
 
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#29
BigMac5 said:
I use a Sennheiser 421, but from what I hear aroun here the Heil PR40 and Ev RE20 are better mics.
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I have seen a number of TB'ers say they like the Sennheiser 421 as well. It seems to be a popular mic. I guess you have to compare frequency response curves and prices, and make an informed decision. I do not know if the OP has gone through that exercise. Polling TB'ers is certainly a part of the research process, hence his inquiry.

I remember looking at the freq response curve for the PR40 and saying "nice!"
 
#30
BigMac5 said:
Guy can't take a hint. I'm not interested in getting into this argument again. It has been discussed to death here, do a search if you want. Please stop derailing the OP's thread.
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Get off the high-horse before you get a nosebleed.

The OP has what, all of 3 posts on TB? In the eyes of some, that might indicate that the OP may not have the knowledge and/or experience to make a well educated decision on the topic. He certainly didn't offer a great deal of context in his question.

The sound solutions for bass in a live venue setting do not exist in a vacuum. There are conditions in a number of environments that will call for different solutions. To focus on such a narrow point of discussion as THE BEST MIC is to go into the broader discussion with blinders on.

Remarkably, and probably to his benefit, the OP has stayed away from this thread. I wonder why? :hiding:
 
#31
ShoeManiac said:
I wonder why?
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I don't. The poor guy just asked for opinions on microphones. And he's sitting at his computer watching a sword fight between two other TB'ers, and the point of contention isn't even between two microphone brands.

It's a good thing he didn't ask about different types of tubes because that would have certainly prompted some guy who prefers solid state to tell him to switchover to transistors, and all hell would have broken loose! (gotta love those discussions!.....they are almost as good as the tonewoods discussion). LOL!

DAYUM, Talkbass is entertaining!
 
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#33
i think the op isn't on here responding because he posted this thread a couple months ago. but that's beside the point.

shoe, i like you and respect what you have to say usually, but in this case, you couldn't be more wrong. the bleed issue is a red herring. on any given stage, there are several mics on the drums, mics on the guitar amps, and mics for the singers. all of a sudden using a mic on the bass amp is going to cause uncontrollable bleed? seriously?

as for the feedback issue you mentioned, nonexistent. you have way more to worry about with vocal mics than a bass cab mic.

i will agree that a di is easier to use. but i don't like the sound of them, especially the pisspoor di's you usually find at small clubs. i can tolerate a di from my vt deluxe, maybe a reddi or a speaker di from a tube amp, and that's about it. but i don't prefer them to a good mic on a cab, so on gigs where i'm using my own stuff, i bring my own good mic, and i insist on it being the only source for my sound. if i have to use a rig with a crap cab, then i'll di. otherwise i insist on a mic.

and sorry, but i hate the d112. it's a good mic for bass drums when you want it to sound like a basketball being dribbled on a hardwood floor, but i hate them on bass cabs. the only reason soundmen will want to put a d112 on a cab is because they equate low response with bass.

you're certainly entitled to have your opinion and do what you want. but i've found that all this stuff about di vs mic is mythology. it's no harder to get a good sound with a good mic suitable for bass than a di.
 
#34
Well, I think I'm going to try a mic on my cab next week. I'm running a single MB SD800 into a 3015 cab with a BDDI and VT in front of it. If I set it up to sound good through the cab, it sounds trebly and clicky in my IEM's (1964 Ears Quads). If I eq for the IEM's, the cab sounds like a reggae rig. The band leader wants me to use a live amp so I'm thinking a mic on the cab will split the difference. I'll probably start with anSM57 to see how it goes.
 
#35
If your DI sounds good in the FOH, you could experiment with a mic just for your IEM signal(others can still use your DI if they don't want to touch anything yet). After some experimentation, you could then introduce it to the FOH mix, or not if the DI sounds better.
Wes
 
#37
Personal use favors the Sennheiser MD 421.
Specs here: Sennheiser USA - Studio Microphone MD 421-II - Broadcasting Microphone - Professional Audio

Heil specs here:[Invalid or Expired Link Removed]

I respect Jimmy a LOT but have no experience with the Heil mic.
I will ask a touring FOH engineer about them though. In particular, I'll ask him how they hold up under road use and high SPL abuse(picture your ear in front of your bass speaker at stage volume). 421's haven't failed me or sounded different with age and abuse.

I didn't know that "DI" made a microphone?!?
 
#38
My biggest problem with 421's live is those clips are a bit fragile...odd design, really...I think the main choices are correct, by my way of thinking...RE20, PR40, M88...I did get a chance to try out EV's newest, lower priced version of an RE20, called the RE320, and it's very good for less dough. The 'kick mics suck for bass' argument is a tad overstated...I wouldn't travel with a D112 for a bass cab mic, but have heard FOH guys make them work really well...same goes for Beta 52's...I heard someone mention a U47!!! For live?! Um, sure...maybe a live recording with armed guards nearby :)
 

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