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Best P.A for a five piece right rock band

Discussion in 'Live Sound [BG]' started by Terry Dodd, Oct 8, 2019.


  1. Terry Dodd

    Terry Dodd

    Sep 13, 2019
    Two guitars
    Bass
    Drums
    Vocals

    Looking at purchasing a p.a
    I've been out of the dealing with p.a systems for a while and not sure what's out there
    Probably looking for something around 1600w just woundering what people would recommend

    Thanks in advance
    Terry
     
  2. Wild_Bill_57

    Wild_Bill_57 Supporting Member

    Mar 18, 2017
    Cincinnati, Ohio
    What are you trying to actually run through PA, how big of an area are you trying to cover. Indoor / Outdoor, type of music.
     
    DirtDog and carsonchilders like this.
  3. Wild_Bill_57

    Wild_Bill_57 Supporting Member

    Mar 18, 2017
    Cincinnati, Ohio
    A lot of factors go into answering your question. Also budget
     
    CyberSnyder, s0c9 and jimfist like this.
  4. Stumbo

    Stumbo Wherever you go, there you are. Supporting Member Commercial User

    Feb 11, 2008
    Song Surgeon slow downer. https://tinyurl.com/y5dcuqjg
    Why 1600 watts? DI the BASS? Mic the drums?

    Mics, Monitors, stands, cables... everything?

    How many vocal mics?

    Max budget?
     
    Wild_Bill_57 and s0c9 like this.
  5. jallejulius

    jallejulius

    Oct 3, 2019
    We are rocking Altos TS3-series, two TS315 tops and two TS318's subwoofers.
    For the price, I think they are unbeatable in terms of sound quality and SPL (volume).
    What you don't get however is features and maybe better built in protection, I have heard many people who push them to hard an break them. But that is many on the internet, it could be 1 out of 100 or 1 out of 10000, I have no idea. They have gotten awesome reviews everywhere.
     
    bassliner50 likes this.
  6. promdates

    promdates

    Jun 2, 2019
    We've been looking at going to the QSC K12.2 tops with the KS112 subs.
     
  7. Wild_Bill_57

    Wild_Bill_57 Supporting Member

    Mar 18, 2017
    Cincinnati, Ohio
    Not knowing what you are trying to accomplish for sure, and not knowing your budget it's hard to make suggestions. I can tell you what we use for our 5pc band consisting of 2x Guitar, Bass, Keys, Drums, 4 Vocals. We run a clean stage, no amps all direct or ISO Cab in Cases, all drums mic'd, IEMs for monitors. For PA we run QSC K series 2-4 K12.2 over 2-4 KS212C (cardioid) subs, Midas M32C / DL32 Mixer w/several iPads, PSM-900 wireless IEM systems. Shure Mics 4x Beta-87a Vocals, Shure Beta-91a, 4x Beta-98amp, KSM-137, VP-88 (Overhead) on drums. 2x Radial Pro2 DIs on Keys, Sennhieser E609 on ISO Cabs, Mesa subway+ Pre/DI on Bass. We use all Belden 8412 Cable w/ Neutrik Connectors, only use 4 tall K&M boom stands for vocals. All drum mics mount to drum kit (overhead uses special mount) we play mostly 70 /80 rock / country in medium sized bars / clubs / casinos, Some outdoor shows at bars, marinas and festivals. We have no trouble covering any of these gigs.
     
    Last edited: Oct 9, 2019
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  8. promdates

    promdates

    Jun 2, 2019
    When do you decide if you need more than 2, venue size and/or outside basically?
     
  9. Wild_Bill_57

    Wild_Bill_57 Supporting Member

    Mar 18, 2017
    Cincinnati, Ohio
    Depends on the amount of horizontal coverage needed (k12.2 are 75 degree wide) also we tend to use 4 subs outdoors and in larger venues. The KS212C sub is pretty amazing for it's size, and the the rear rejection is great for keeping the low rumble off the stage and out of the mics with almost no EQ, We can really open the system up with no feedback ever.
     
    carsonchilders and mikewalker like this.
  10. promdates

    promdates

    Jun 2, 2019
    Any reason to use the K8.2s over the k12s due to the wider angle?
     
  11. Wild_Bill_57

    Wild_Bill_57 Supporting Member

    Mar 18, 2017
    Cincinnati, Ohio
    I have played with the K8.2, K10.2, K12.2 and even with the narrower dispersion the K12.2 seemed to be the best fit with a live band. They are all great sounding speakers, but the K12.2 seemed to be the best overall. I would definitely spend the extra money on the KS212c over the KS112 the cardioid pattern is well worth the cost. If you do your research and plan your purchase timing right, you can get about 15-17% off the MAP on QSC online with no sales tax and free shipping (Look at large dealers in CA) this makes it an easier pill to swallow. I have no connection to any dealer or manufacture, but this is how I saved about $ 2,000.00 on the PA purchase.
     
  12. Paulabass

    Paulabass

    Sep 18, 2017
    Since just about every powered speaker made is 1000+ watts the number means nothing. We need to know- Style of music, size of venue. Do you want the kick drum to punch you in the chest, or are families trying to eat dinner?
    From the little info supplied- Start with an ipad run digital mixer (they are ALL good, but I like Soundcraft) then buy a pair of good mains (QSC, JBL etc.) and enough monitors for the whole band (sharing monitors just doesn't work) Decide if you need subs (I don't even know you and I say you do :) ) So, you are at about 8000 watts already (see why the numbers don't matter?).
    Great sounding P.A. has never been easier or cheaper.
     
  13. Wild_Bill_57

    Wild_Bill_57 Supporting Member

    Mar 18, 2017
    Cincinnati, Ohio
    I have to agree with everything Paula just said
     
  14. BwanaDust

    BwanaDust Commercial User

    Apr 11, 2019
    Pittsburgh, PA
    Lincoln Learning Solutions - Lincoln Park Performing Arts Center
    Speaker manufacturers like to confuse people with the 1000+ watt ratings. Those are invariably peak ratings and the actual continuous power is half of that.

    Before you ask what type of PA you should get, you need to figure out how much you have to spend. What type of venues you'll be playing. How much of your band you want to run through the PA. How you are going to cart all of that around and who is going to run it.

    Everyone is going to tell you what their favorite stuff is, based on what they own as opposed to what might actually be best for you.

    Depending on your situation, you don't necessarily have to have a digital console. Nor do you have to have IEMs or powered speakers. Or subs.

    You need to figure out what you're trying to accomplish, then solicit advice on possibilities.
     
  15. Paulabass

    Paulabass

    Sep 18, 2017
    BTW- About a year ago I built a p.a. for my jazz/pop band. My parameters- Must fit in a hatchback and cost less than $3K. Venues to 300 people.
    Soundcraft Ui16 mixer and $100 tablet
    2 x Alto TS312 mains.
    1x Alto TS315S sub
    4x Alto TS310 monitors
    1 speaker stand and 1 pole
    4 x Sennheirer 835 package (mic, stand and cable)
    Used drum mics and D.I.

    It works well for a bar band playing rock as well.
    Flip side- The P.A. in my own venue cost me $25+K (It's pretty impressive)
     
    Last edited: Oct 9, 2019
  16. Paulabass

    Paulabass

    Sep 18, 2017
     
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  17. Wild_Bill_57

    Wild_Bill_57 Supporting Member

    Mar 18, 2017
    Cincinnati, Ohio
    @BwanaDust is right on with his statement, Everyone can tell you what they have, and how well it works for them and why. Everyone will have they're favorite brand or model, but in the end you have to first identify your needs and budget and work from those two ends to the middle where you find what you should do for your situation.
     
  18. bfields

    bfields

    Apr 9, 2015
    Ann Arbor, MI
    Trying to look for this, I got confused, as there's a "TS315" that's not a sub. For anybody else, "TS315S" is the search term you want....
     
  19. BwanaDust

    BwanaDust Commercial User

    Apr 11, 2019
    Pittsburgh, PA
    Lincoln Learning Solutions - Lincoln Park Performing Arts Center
    You don't have to yell. In my opinion the numbers do matter. I'm not going to get into some silly urination contest with you over it, in case you start yelling some more.

    As for digital being cheaper. I agree, for the most part (especially in the semi-pro market) it sounds very cheap to my ears. Don't get me wrong. I work on all manner of digital consoles in my day gig (from Midas M32 through Yamaha CL5 to SSL TT300). I enjoy working with them, however for personal gigs, I use a set of yamaha passive drivers with a crown power amp, DBX equalization and a lexicon PCM91 for fx. I use a Yamaha MG12xu for a mixer. I get compliments (from patrons and owners) at virtually every venue I perform. I prefer the sound of a wood cabinet and my reverb costs more than any digital mixer below an M32. I use top quality cabling and it does make a difference.

    To simply dismiss it because it is "backward technology," is quite silly IMO. There is a reason why quality vintage analog gear commands such a high price. There is also a reason, why modern, digital gear is constantly trying to favorably compare itself to the old, backward technology.

    To each their own. Some people like the sound of guitar simulations and direct instruments. I personally find them repulsive to my ears, but I would never tell anyone that old school is the only way to go. I merely suggested that the OP reflect on a number of things before soliciting advice.

    Another reason I suggested old technology is that you can get great sounding analog gear for a fraction of the price of new 3rd tier digital gear and powere speakers. And they definitely last longer. I've had my Yammies for 20 years and they sound fantastic.

    But to each their own....

    As for who still makes passive speakers... Look into it yourself.
     
    EatS1stBassist, bbh and mikewalker like this.
  20. I agree with Paula, as well... I also agree that you have to determine what your needs are and your budget. I also believe that if people let you know what they do and what the use it helps you to make a decision. So here's what WE do...

    We play everything from restaurants to gyms, and what we use is two Yorkville NX550p (1x12 with a horn, 550 watts) and although I have two NX750p (15" subs, 750 watts) I usually only use one for pubs to get a little thump from the kick. For small venues the two tops work fine on their own. I have two Yorkville E10p 10" speakers for monitors. Drummer has one of those mini mic stand monitors and the singer has in-ears. For the mixer I use a Behringer XR18 (I bought a dedicated WIFI because the internal sucks) with an iPad. The powered speakers eliminate the need for any rack stuff. The app has lots of effects.

    My buddy went Turbosound, and the front end sounds pretty good. The QSC stuff is amazing, but it was a lot more money. I've though about updating to the Yorkville Paraline line of speakers, but if it ain't broke... If I was to do the digital mixer box again I might consider the Soundcraft, or the Midas. I bout my system a few years ago so I think there's a few other options out there now. It's been a journey to get a system I can trust that handles everything that I do.

    In my opinion, make sure you have enough monitor outs for each member (The XR18 has 8). I had an excellent powered board for a while, but it only had two aux outs and after a while I couldn't handle the whining about people not getting individual monitor mixes. Stay away from super cheap stuff as you'll blow the horns out of them. Being a 5 piece, I wouldn't go less than 16 channels. I like the WIFI/ipad because if you do hire a soundman, there's no need for a snake.

    Good luck in your search.
     
    mikewalker and bpmben like this.

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