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Better Note Articulation/Attack in Low Tunings

Obese Chess

You Guys Are Getting Paid?
Supporting Member
Sep 4, 2005
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5,595
Portland, OR
Hi all,

I am primarily a fingerstyle player at this point, though I am reasonably competent with a pick. In tracking my band's current release, I have tuned my Dingwall NG-2 down to FCFBbEb. I am using a .170 for the low F. When plucking with my fingers, which I do pretty aggressively, the low note doesn't really bloom the same way the higher notes do, but it's still audible. However, when playing with a pick, this all goes out the window and it's nothing but pick attack and flub. Both of these configurations sound good when played through a live rig (assuming the bass response is good enough) but how do I get this to come through in recording? Obviously it's possible as low-tuned metal bands have been doing this forever, I just can't make it work.

For what it's worth, I'm going direct into a Darkglass B7K, EQ flat, and then into a Scarlett 2i2 into Reaper. No compression, EQing, or anything, just a direct signal.

Thanks!
 
The best way to record infrasonics is not to record them, since no one can actually hear them and no practical speakers can reproduce them. A high pass filter may seem counterintuitive but it's the overtones that you are actually hearing. Psychoacoustics does its thing and you "hear" the low F. But you're not really hearing it you're hearing overtones and combination tones. And you will "hear" them better if you don't record frequencies that cannot be heard or accurately reproduced. You'll probably find it sounds a hell of a lot better live with a HPF as well. Think of all the wattage that won't be wasted trying to push 10hz through a speaker that can't reproduce in to an audience that can't hear it. Think of all the freedom your speakers will have to do useful things when they aren't trying in vain create a 10hz tone.
 
Hi all,

Thanks for the tips on EQing. My guitarist produces the tunes, I just send him a totally dry, flat signal. I am using .73 Tortex, sometimes a .88.

So, conceivably I or he can EQ those out? I'm sure he can, I'm just curious for my own purposes. :)
 
In a DAW it's a piece of cake.

You could also improve the sound before he gets it by playing with the EQ knobs on your darkglass if you wanted to. It should have enough bands to get it sounding much closer to what you want.
 
Cool, I will try those. Is this something he can do on the raw signal that he has now, or is that something that should be done before recording so that the right frequencies make it to the raw signal? If that makes sense...?
 
Mids - the low ones
HPF
Turn down the "pick attack" freqs

It's definitely an EQing problem.

Do you know the process for EQing a signal?

So here's the thing - not really. I mean, I can dial in my live tone, but I don't have a good command of which frequencies to boost or cut for recording. I've been using the Darkglass all wrong (rookie mistake) too and want to get this right. I can ace things live, but I'm not sending him tracks that meets either of our standards for tone or technique, figure I can at least get the tone issue fixed.
 
There's really no hard and fast rules to follow when it comes to which specific frequencies to boost or cut. It always comes down to what kind of signal your performance of your bass on your system produces. But there is a process for figuring it out each time.

To begin with you have to have ready access to the studio monitors you're going to be mixing the music on. Without this there's nothing you can do to figure it out.

So you set up your bass and your preamp into the interface and record the performance into your DAW. Then you apply a parametric EQ to the track. You grab one of the middle bands and turn it up until you start to hear it making a very noticeable difference to the sound. Then you slowly sweep the band up and down the spectrum until you find a spot where it makes the track sound better. Keep sweeping it up and down in smaller and smaller increments until you find the best spot for it, where it sounds the best. Then you play with the gain and width of that band until it sounds as good as you can make it sound.

That's the basic process for EQing.

Sometimes you need to make a cut instead of a boost, but only if you hear a specific problem with the signal that you want to get rid of. It sounds like you will probably need to make a cut to get rid of the flub and to bring the attack of the pick down to a better level.

The flub you're hearing is always caused by too much energy in the low frequencies. It's a little easier to get rid of this. You're going to use the high pass filter in your parametric EQ. This is the part of the parametric eq that is all the way to the left at the low end. It looks a little different from a typical band.

What you want to do is grab the high pass and turn it on. It will immediately start cutting out the lowest frequencies in the signal. Then you slowly sweep it up from the bottom of spectrum while listening very carefully to the track. When you hear that the flub is gone stop sweeping it to the right and instead slowly sweep it to the left to bring back some of the lower frequencies. Keep going until you hear the flub come back. Then sweep up again, then down again, over and over in smaller increments until you find the spot where the high pass gets rid of the flub without cutting out any of the rest of the sound of your bass. That's one problem down.

You're going to do basically the same thing for the attack of the pick, but with a low pass filter instead.

Turn on the low pass filter, the one at the far right of the spectrum, and go through the same process. Sweep it down and back up the signal until the pick attacks go away, but the rest of the bass sound is intact.

If you find that with either the high pass, or the low pass that you're losing too much of the bass sound you want in order to get rid of the problems, then all you have to do is make the slope of the pass that's cutting too much of the sound you want steeper. A steeper sloped cut will have less of an effect on the rest of the signal.

So you're going to record your bass through you system, and then while listening to it on the monitors, in this order:

1. High and low pass the signal (I can't tell you which of the two to do first because I can't hear it. sometimes the flub is so loud you can't hear what's going on with the attack of the pick properly, sometimes the attack of the pick is so loud you can't hear the flub properly. Start with whichever one sounds loudest.)
2. pull up a band in the middle somewhere (probably in the lower middle portion, but it's all up to your ears)

You do it in this order because you always want to get rid of the problems first before you start making boosts to your signal, or else the problems will mask the changes you're making and you'll have to redo it anyway.

That's how it's done in the DAW.

On your darkglass it's a little different.

Make sure you can hear your bass through the darkglass, through the DAW, through the monitors. Turn all of your EQ knobs to the 12 o'clock position.

If the flub is louder, start with the flub. It's always in the low end somewhere. So play a bit, listen to it carefully, then turn down the low knob a bit and play again and listen again. If the flub's not gone do it again, turn it down a bit, play listen. Do this until the flub is gone, then play with it up and down until you find the best spot for it, where it cuts only the flub and leaves the rest of your bass signal.

Then the attacks you don't like. Those are always in the higher frequencies, so grab the treble knob and do the same thing you did with the flub. Turn it down slowly and listen to it until you find the perfect spot for getting rid of the attacks. I don't know what your signal looks like, so this knob may not be enough to fix it completely, but it will probably make a big difference.

If instead the attacks are louder, do the same thing but start with the attacks.

Now that your problems are as solved as possible, time to get it sounding how you like.

Start with the Low Mids. Play your bass a bit, listen to it carefully and then play with the knob. Turn it up and down while listening until you find the sweet spot.

Then the Hi Mids. Same thing, play with the knob while listening to the bass until you've got it sounding just like you like it.

And you're done.
 
Cool. I've got further EQing on the bass with boost and cut at 70Hz, 500Hz, and 2.8kHz. Should I bother with those at all, or, who knows, same process of messing around with the knobs until it sounds good applies?

EDIT: Oh, I misunderstood. Your comment was ALL based on what to do AFTER recording. Okay. I think my BIG tone issue was not using the Darkglass correctly and that it will be salvageable after that. I'm confident that he can do the EQing, HPF, etc if I sent him a raw signal that DOES NOT SUCK.

Thanks so much, by the way!
 
If anyone would like a good laugh at my expense, the issue that I am alluding to is that I was just running the B7K inline like I would a pedal, effectively bypassing the DI portion. What I should have been doing was using the big output that says: DIRECT OUT.

Thank goodness it was only four songs before I realized this, and now I know them like the back of my hand.

:rollno:
 
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So, using the direct out sounds significantly better, to no one's surprise, but it still doesn't sound great. In theory, even with totally flat EQ and no compression, a Dingwall NG-2 through a B7K should sound QUITE good. So, what am I missing? Are sound clips helpful/necessary for answering this kind of question?
 
Cool, I will do that when I get the new interface hooked up tomorrow. The signal is too hot coming out of the bass so I'm having to roll the volume off a LOT, I expect that's the issue, but I've got an interface with an active pad coming in tomorrow.
 
Haven't forgotten this thread, I just cannot get the Scarlett 2i4 to interface properly and have been pulling my hair out trying to figure it out. No matter what I do, I get horrible pops, hisses, and buzzes on playback (even playing songs through Spotify or something) and it only records static.