Beware Turner Basses.

[gwx014]

What to do. when manufacter does not stand behind product?
I write this letter out of frustration!

To make long story short.
I originaly ordered a Electroline Bass from Ric Turner.
This was custom bass, I paid for bass in full.
I did not receive the bass I ordered.
Last March,2005 Ric said he would make things right,and make me second bass.
It would be four months to complete.
In Aug, of 2005. After numerous, e-mail and phone calls, I could not again get my bass.
Ric said he changed his e-mail service. I belive this to be true.
But, Turner Guitars made no attempt to contact me.
They had my e-mail, phone, and home address.
Eight days ago, I was on Vintage Bass Trading Co. forums.
Ric Turner was online.
I again asked where my bass was?
Left my home e-mail, so he could contact me.
He said,on the forum, he would make thing right, again.
And left his e-mail adderss.
He never tried contacting me, at my address.
I've sent Ric, three or four e-mail.
None of my e-mails, have returned unsent to me.
I can only assume, he has got them.
I know Ric, is and inovator, in the bass field.
But this can't be customer service?????
It has been over a year.
What should I do????
I know Ric, makes a great product, but if he is not a man of his word. And does not stand behind his product, maybe us, the buying public should look else where???

Maybee see if you can get a refund and get something else just as good. Sorry for your mistfortune. I'd be really ticked if that happened to me. I've had a similar experience but it wasn't with a bass.

Good Luck!

 

[Vic]

I don't know why but it seems that luthiers don't feel like customer service (or even common courtesy) apply to them. In a recent thread, there were attempts to defend this kind of thing, and I have to say, I just don't think it's defensible. (Here' a link to the thread: http://www.talkbass.com/forum/showthread.php?t=222494. My situation isn't nearly as bad as yours!)

Wow, IMHO, that's WAAAAAY too sweeping. IMHO, it's ok to complain about specific experiences, but IMHO, to generalize or at least assume that they're all bad, is just not valid, if not completely unfair.

I know you had a bit of a bad time with Zon, but see my post at the end of that thread. If it helps, I had fantastic luck with his shop.

While I've never had the (mis?)fortune of dealing the Turner, I have had the (VERY GOOD) fortune of dealing with Mike Tobias (twice) and Keith Roscoe (twice). They were both great. Yeah, I had to forgive them response time in emails, but most times I called on the phone I either got them right then, or at least sometime that day, and they were very patient, courteous, and helpful.

P.S. If I had the experience you've had, I'd be demanding my money back and move on.
(...sound of two pennies hitting the counter...)

 

[Tom Howland]

Mojo, have you also tried contacting Barry Pearlman, Turner's sales manager. In my opinion he's the one who should be helping your case.

Hope it works out.

rich[/QUOTE]

For the last year all my conversations have been with Ric.
It's his name on the company.
He should direct me to Barry.
Remember, this is not my first request for a new bass.
Ric himself has told me, twice he will fix this.
Honor your word.

 

[Tom Howland]

Just to let everyone know.
I live 3000 miles from Ric's Shop.
So I can't just go visit him.

In March of 2005, when Ric said to me, he would make things right.
He said there is no cash refund for a custom order bass.
But he would make me a second bass.
that was 11 months ago.
Thanks for support.

 

[Vic]

Just to let everyone know.
I live 3000 miles from Ric's Shop.
So I can't just go visit him.

In March of 2005, when Ric said to me, he would make things right.
He said there is no cash refund for a custom order bass.
But he would make me a second bass.
that was 11 months ago.
Thanks for support.

Yeah, but legally, he wouldn't have a leg to stand on. He broke the contract by failing to deliver what you paid for. Maybe it's moot, since I don't suggest going to court, but IMHO, he lost his right to enforce that policy when he failed to hold up his end of the deal.

All that said, I do hope it finally works out, and if the bass is as awesome as it should be, that your experience doesn't ruin your ability to enjoy it. Really...

 

[dunamis]

Wow, IMHO, that's WAAAAAY too sweeping. IMHO, it's ok to complain about specific experiences, but IMHO, to generalize or at least assume that they're all bad, is just not valid, if not completely unfair.

I know you had a bit of a bad time with Zon, but see my post at the end of that thread. If it helps, I had fantastic luck with his shop.

While I've never had the (mis?)fortune of dealing the Turner, I have had the (VERY GOOD) fortune of dealing with Mike Tobias (twice) and Keith Roscoe (twice). They were both great. Yeah, I had to forgive them response time in emails, but most times I called on the phone I either got them right then, or at least sometime that day, and they were very patient, courteous, and helpful.

P.S. If I had the experience you've had, I'd be demanding my money back and move on.
(...sound of two pennies hitting the counter...)

Too sweeping? At least one luthier attempted to defend the behavior (ie: if he's spending time e-mailing or talking on the phone he's not working your bass-- I'm paraphrasing here. That's STUFF, IMO.).

I did see your comment at the end of the thread. Note mine above-- apologies to those luthiers who do practice good customer service, and I am sure there are many-- and I beg you to forgive the hyperbole.

 

[dunamis]

Yeah, but legally, he wouldn't have a leg to stand on. He broke the contract by failing to deliver what you paid for. Maybe it's moot, since I don't suggest going to court, but IMHO, he lost his right to enforce that policy when he failed to hold up his end of the deal.

My point exactly. Even if he did, what can he do about it? From my experience, if he does pursue legal action all he'd get even if he's successful in litigation of the case is a bass and a bill from his lawyer. And, do you ahve any idea how ong it would take to sort all that out? Ric already siad he won't give the money back, so all the guy wants is his bass. It's just bad strategy to push the legal angle, and (IMO) that includes actions like certified letter.

Plus, the case would be heard in *gulp*... CALIFORNIA... Yikes!!! Let's not even go there...

 

[Vic]

My point exactly. Even if he did, what can he do about it? From my experience, if he does pursue legal action all he'd get even he's successful inlitigation of the case is a bass and a bill from his lawyer. And, do you ahve any idea how ong it would take to sort all that out? Ric already siad he won't give the money back, so all the guy wants is his bass. It's just bad strategy to push the legal angle, and (IMO) that includes actions like certified letter.

Obviously, which is why I did actually say I was not suggesting legal action.

My point was simply to illustrate how Ric really had no grounds for using his policy to keep the money. If it were me, I'd confront him with that, but admittedly, that's a risky road to travel.

Bottom line is, this whole situation sucks big time, and I completely and totally empathise with Mojo-man. I can honestly say I will never deal with Turner, and may even never purchase used on principle alone. IMHO, this is beyond poor customer service... this is inexcusable.

 

[dunamis]

Yes it is.

 

[syciprider]

Put this thread in your signature in bold. Some ppl are just full of themselves.

 

[dunamis]

well, full of something anyway...

 

[alembicf1x]

My experience with Rick is that he doesn't answer emails very often, if at all. It's best to get him on the phone. The man is far from arrogant, but there is an aura about him, more like quiet confidence. But I can't say that I've had a bad experience with him, in fact, quite the opposite.

I bought a used custom Renaissance about six years ago, and right after purchase I brought it to Rick to have it "freshened up". I'm lucky enough to live about 30 miles from his shop. Took about two weeks, no problems. He took care of me like I was the original owner, much to my surprise.

Brought the same bass back to him last year for some bridge work and another tuneup, and had the bass back in my hands within three weeks. He even lent me an Electroline while my bass was in the shop. When I expressed to him an interest in adding a magnetic pickup to my Ren, he offered to exchange it for a different bass rather than deface such a gorgeous instrument. In my case he was clearly concerned about customer satisfaction and was willing to take whatever steps necessary to ensure that.

Mojo, I would strongly suggest you call Barry Pearlman and try to shed some of the "I want to only deal with Rick" attitude. Let us know how things progress after that.

 

[Ed Goode]

The line between arrogance and confidence is razor thin. It surely sounds like Mr Turner has directly stepped over to the arrogance side :scowl:

I have no bone to pick here, but why would anyone want to do business with this cat? There has to be some other-worldly amazing magic in his basses to put up with the BS I've read in this thread. I'll give my cash to someone who will treat me, the customer, with the basic level of respect owed to any client. Arrogance is arrogance, regardless of how it's packaged ........

 

[mike sancho]

I'm sorry you're having these difficulties. It just flat out sucks. Why is it that people seem to feel that they don't have to be accountable? I don't care what business you happen to be in if you give someone your word or sign an aggreement or contract to provide product or services you should be accountable. It doesn't matter either if your an innovator or what you've done in the past, it doesn't put the bass in my hands when you said you would. Bottom line. for the cost of some of these basses, they ought to be way more on top of delivering the services they contract for when they say they will. I hope you get this resolved soon!!!!

 

[dunamis]

You said it!

 

[Geoff St. Germaine]

Too sweeping? At least one luthier attempted to defend the behavior (ie: if he's spending time e-mailing or talking on the phone he's not working your bass-- I'm paraphrasing here. That's STUFF, IMO.).

I did see your comment at the end of the thread. Note mine above-- apologies to those luthiers who do practice good customer service, and I am sure there are many-- and I beg you to forgive the hyperbole.

Even if a luthier defending the behaviour, it doesn't mean "luthiers don't feel like customer service (or even common courtesy) apply to them."

I agree with the idea that it's too sweeping. I've dealt with JP at JP Basses, George Furlanetto at F Bass and Sheldon Dingwall. All of them are very responsive. I had an issue with my Dingwall Prima 6 when I got it. The frets are glued in and the 13th fret had lifted and was buzzing. Sheldon paid to have the bass shipped to him, refretted the entire neck (which included refinishing it) and had it back to me within 3 weeks.

Many luthiers put the customer first.

 

[dunamis]

I've dealt with luthiers too, and you're correct-- there are those who do practice common courtesy and good customer service. Please note that I said so in my original post.

That said, there are those who do not. You may not realize that my post was referring to another thread in which the same topic (non-responsiveness from luthiers) was being discussed, and a prominent luthier (as well as other posters) attempted to defend the unresponsiveness.

 

[BassyBill]

It amazes me that someone can drop top dollar for a bass (or anything else, come to that) and then the person with the money just sits on it for this length of time, with apparently no desire to put the situation right or even to talk about it. It would be bad enough if the order had been accepted for a deposit, but when you've paid in full up front this just beggars belief. If this happened to me, I would never be able to feel good about the instrument when I eventually got it, no matter how great it was. The sour taste would ruin the whole thing, so in your situation I'd have no real alternative than to cancel the order and do my damnedest to get my money back. I really hope that doesn't make you feel worse and that this all works out for you personally in a good outcome.

That said, I agree that we shouldn't generalise. I've been lucky maybe, but I've found most guys I've dealt with on anything from whole basses down to minor upgrades have been courteous and set great store on good customer service. Rob Green at Status, J-Retro man John East and Carey Nordstrand are all good examples of this in my book.

 

[Clorenzo]

I've read this thread with great interest because I find this kind of stuff truly fascinating. I've never run a business myself but from a customer point of view I've seen things that make wondering about the origin of the universe plain boring in comparison.

Dunamis's second post has to be the best piece of advice I've read on the web in a very long time. I'd bet good money that would work. By "work" I don't mean that you will get your bass tomorrow, but you will get it sooner than with any other strategy you attempt.

The most important part of this approach is the "be polite" thing. Being rude will make him angry, which is not the best motivation to start working on your bass. Being polite and even understanding ("of course I know you're not doing this on purpose, I'm sure you have a huge backlog and are doing your best, but please understand I want my bass as soon a possible" type thing) will make him feel guilty: now that's only second to fear as a motivator (and of course second to nothing if you don't want to break the law with physical threats and the like). It's difficult to say "no" just once to someone who is asking politely for something he has the right to ask from you. To do it once a week is almost impossible.

The other aspect of this strategy is something marketing guys know a lot about: differentiation. If you have a dozen angry customers on your back calling every now and then and this one nice guy who really cares because he's calling every week to see how things are going, imagine which bass you're going to choose to work on next.

Bear in mind that once you've lost it with someone and you are in hostile terms with them, the very powerful self-justifying machine in our brains will have the perfect excuse to just go "yeah, I should have delivered the bass long ago, but he's a total jerk, so he deserves it". If you're nice he has no excuse and he's the bad guy in the situation (our good old friend, guilt, at work again).

The idea of getting confirmation of their short term, minor commitments is also simply brilliant. As I said I've never run a business but I have worked in teams and managed people and, again, this works like nothing else. People actually like having this sort of "small task" that they can easily complete and have something to show (he's going to feel great when, next time you call, he can tell you "as I told you I've installed the pickup") and in this case as well as the feel-good factor there's the feel-less-guilty factor.

Finally, it's no big deal if you don't get to talk directly to him (it's likely that after a few calls he will delegate on someone to deal with you). You've made your point, left your message, signalled that you're still there, still being polite and understanding, but firmly determined to get your bass. The e-mail after the phone call with the "thanks for your time, this is what we discussed" is the icing on the cake. He would have to be devious not to take care of your bass! He wishes all his customers were like you!

I know what you said about it being difficult to be polite after all this time, but if you manage to do it, I'm sure things will work out in the best possible way. Just give it a try.

 

[mikezimmerman]

I agree that the whole incident points to some severe problems in the customer service area! So, this is not in any way an apology for the company's treatment of Mojo-man! I've been in similar situations with a couple of builders (including the Turner shop). Politeness and persistence can help, but it's still very frustrating!

However, there are also ways in which this situation is a bit different from a typical custom order. To start with, Turner has *already* built Mojo-man a bass, and I'm a little unclear on what it means that it was "not the bass I ordered"--it might help our assessment of the situation to know exactly what the problem was with the first bass.

Rightly or wrongly, in Turner's shoes I might be a little more inclined to put a project on the back burner if I'd already done it once and wasn't sure that anything I do would really satisfy the customer, or felt that his expectations were unreasonable. All the more reason for you, the customer, to continue to do your best to come across as polite and reasonable!

Best of luck in getting this resolved.

Mike