Beware Turner Basses.

[Vic]

Rightly or wrongly, in Turner's shoes I might be a little more inclined to put a project on the back burner if I'd already done it once and wasn't sure that anything I do would really satisfy the customer, or felt that his expectations were unreasonable. All the more reason for you, the customer, to continue to do your best to come across as polite and reasonable!

IMHO, VERY wrongly...

If I were in that mindset, then I'd return the money and get the person I considered to be un-pleasable off my plate. To me, it makes NO sense to put something off in this case, because all that does is make the PIA worse for BOTH parties. I don't personally see the logic in that approach.

Also, you're right that, once you're at a disadvantage, you need to try and avoid hostile territory, but that's a VERY bitter place to be because you shouldn't have to go out of your way to be kind to someone who is being completely unreasonable. Then again, this is the real world, and in crappy situations like these, it's all about trying to avoid loss... regardless of if it's justified or deserved... or not...

Best of luck in getting this resolved.

Mike

+1!!!!

 

[jgsbass]

You need to have a lawyer write him a letter and explain to him how much it will cost him ( professionally and financially) if he does not complete his contract. Legal fees would be part of what you need to recoup. Any other instruments you bought would be part of the settlement. Interest on the principal you paid would be included in your recovery. It doesn't matter what kind of a guy Rick Turner is: this is strictly business. He has failed to complete his end of a business deal and it is incurring a loss in your business. I would contact the California Better Business Bureau and ask what they recommend. They can put him out of business if he refuses to honor a sales contract and has cashed your check. Out of business as in not being allowed to do retail sales of any sort:Out of business as in not being allowed to pay employees: out of business as in them checking his business to see if its squeaky clean. He might refuse a legal letter and opt for a lawsuit, he can't fight the government and win.

 

[dunamis]

Thanks to Clorenzo for the kind words. BTW, it's not my idea or anything. I was taught this somewhere along the line but can't really rememeber where or when. In circumstances like this, I may not feel like I should have to do all of the polite follow up, but as you point out, it may indeeed be the best way to get things moving.

Mike makes a good point though. Sounds like there may be some complicating factors! There are two sides to every story. Mike's comments have reminded me that there might be more to this story than what sounds like really poor customer service.

 

[dunamis]

You need to have a lawyer write him a letter and explain to him how much it will cost him ( professionally and financially) if he does not complete his contract. Legal fees would be part of what you need to recoup. Any other instruments you bought would be part of the settlement. Interest on the principal you paid would be included in your recovery. It doesn't matter what kind of a guy Rick Turner is: this is strictly business. He has failed to complete his end of a business deal and it is incurring a loss in your business. I would contact the California Better Business Bureau and ask what they recommend. They can put him out of business if he refuses to honor a sales contract and has cashed your check. Out of business as in not being allowed to do retail sales of any sort:Out of business as in not being allowed to pay employees: out of business as in them checking his business to see if its squeaky clean. He might refuse a legal letter and opt for a lawsuit, he can't fight the government and win.

The only part of this that I agree with is the suggestion that he contact the BBB. Outside of that, IMHO, an attempt to pursue an issue as small as this through legal means would be a waste of time and money-- that is, unless you can get one of those TV courts like Judge Judy or something !

 

[dunamis]

IMHO, VERY wrongly...

If I were in that mindset, then I'd return the money and get the person I considered to be un-pleasable off my plate. To me, it makes NO sense to put something off in this case, because all that does is make the PIA worse for BOTH parties. I don't personally see the logic in that approach.

Also, you're right that, once you're at a disadvantage, you need to try and avoid hostile territory, but that's a VERY bitter place to be because you shouldn't have to go out of your way to be kind to someone who is being completely unreasonable. Then again, this is the real world, and in crappy situations like these, it's all about trying to avoid loss... regardless of if it's justified or deserved... or not...


+1!!!!

I would argue that if Ric feels that way, he should send the guy's money back and tell him he doesn't want to build him a bass.

 

[truckin88]

funny thing is Kurt at Rondo Music has amazing Cust. Service and those guitars are sub 200 bucks, weird

 

[mikezimmerman]

IMHO, VERY wrongly...

If I were in that mindset, then I'd return the money and get the person I considered to be un-pleasable off my plate. To me, it makes NO sense to put something off in this case, because all that does is make the PIA worse for BOTH parties. I don't personally see the logic in that approach.

I didn't mean to indicate that it was necessarily logical or right, just that it's kind of a natural human reaction! It's already been stated that Turner's policy is no cash refunds on custom orders, simply refunding the money seems not to have been an option.

Lots of builders have a policy of not giving cash refunds on custom orders, but many do give the option of putting the bass up for sale and refunding the money once the instrument is sold. If the customer has ordered something really wacky that no one else would want, of course that might take a while!

Mike

 

[KeithBMI]

That thread was the exact place I found out that I wasn't a "luthier".

Been sleepin' better ever since.

Can anyone post a link? or did it get deleted?

 

[Ed Goode]

funny thing is Kurt at Rondo Music has amazing Cust. Service and those guitars are sub 200 bucks, weird

Agreed .... and it's not like Rondo is the size of General Motors with tons of employees or anything like that, it's just a small store that values its customer base ........

 

[Vic]

I would argue that if Ric feels that way, he should send the guy's money back and tell him he doesn't want to build him a bass.

Exactly. I just makes no sense to prolong if you think it's a dead end.

 

[Vic]

I didn't mean to indicate that it was necessarily logical or right, just that it's kind of a natural human reaction! It's already been stated that Turner's policy is no cash refunds on custom orders, simply refunding the money seems not to have been an option.

Lots of builders have a policy of not giving cash refunds on custom orders, but many do give the option of putting the bass up for sale and refunding the money once the instrument is sold. If the customer has ordered something really wacky that no one else would want, of course that might take a while!

Mike

No, I totally heard you. We're on the same page. I was just expanding on what you said.

 

[Tom Howland]

I agree that the whole incident points to some severe problems in the customer service area! So, this is not in any way an apology for the company's treatment of Mojo-man! I've been in similar situations with a couple of builders (including the Turner shop). Politeness and persistence can help, but it's still very frustrating!

However, there are also ways in which this situation is a bit different from a typical custom order. To start with, Turner has *already* built Mojo-man a bass, and I'm a little unclear on what it means that it was "not the bass I ordered"--it might help our assessment of the situation to know exactly what the problem was with the first bass.

Just to clear up.
The first bass I ordered was a custom bass.
Special pickup configuation, they had to rout body different.
And I also requeated a certian finish.

The bass I received was a standard model.
Not the pickups I ordered, and the wrong finish.
The bass took 4 months longer that I was told.
The reason Ric, gave me was they had to re-finish my body, so they had to strip it and refinish it again.
After all that I got the wrong bass.
In march Ric said he would biuld me second bass, to make things right.
I'am still waiting.

 

[Vic]

Just to clear up.
The first bass I ordered was a custom bass.
Special pickup configuation, they had to rout body different.
And I also requeated a certian finish.

The bass I received was a standard model.
Not the pickups I ordered, and the wrong finish.
The bass took 4 months longer that I was told.
The reason Ric, gave me was they had to re-finish my body, so they had to strip it and refinish it again.
After all that I got the wrong bass.
In march Ric said he would biuld me second bass, to make things right.
I'am still waiting.

Ok, so if I get this straight, he's had your money for like well over a year and you ain't seen the bass yet, and have no real idea when you might. Ridiculous. So far over the ridiculous line it's not even funny.

 

[dunamis]

That must have been a real bummer when you first opened the box, after all that waiting, only to find the wrong bass!

I received a custom bass once (after an 8 month production period) to find it damaged from shipping (grrrrr! USPS!). Now that was a bummer.

Fortunately, it was insured and, also fortunately, that particular luthier is a great guy. He jumped on the repair and I had the bass back in hand in less than 2 weeks, good as new!

BTW, the luthier is Jimmy Wilson of Landing Guitars. He made one of my favorite basses. Here's a pic of it from his site:

Link Removed

It's the one I usually grab for practice at home because it's light (7lbs 5 oz), has a great neck and 32" scale so it's really comfortable.

All that is apropos of nothin'-- just a plug for a luthier who does great work and *is* customer oriented.

 

[Bass Viking]

If he sent you the wrong bass, he should definitely make your new one a priority. Probably throw in some case candy too as a gesture of goodwill.

The best thing he could do now is reply to this thread ASAP instead of letting it fester like an open wound. Somebody should send him the link, although that won't help much if he doesn't check his email.

 

[SBassman]

At this point, there would be Nothing that could make me want the bass any longer. I'd take every action to force a refund.

I don't care who the guy is, and I don't care how nice he might be when you are Blessed with being able to actually communicate with him. This kind of garbage should not be allowed to happen, especially when we're talking about significant dollars.

Well, one good outcome of this thread is that you have cured me - and probably many others here - of any future GAS for those basses.

Any chance you paid with a credit card?

 

[dunamis]

A refund *would* probably best and I think (based on what he wrote) he's asked for that and it's been denied.

As a practical matter, I'm not sure how you "force" someone to provide a refund. Fairness and Justice and all that says we ought to expect the refund, and that there ought to be some way to force it if the person declines.

But reality is, his only recourse would be to file a law suit. My contention is that this would be a losing proposition for him because:
*it would take a really, really long time
*it would cost a lot of money in the mean time. He would spend way more than the bass costs.
*he can't be assured of getting back any of the money spent on the law suit
*it's likely that, even he wins the suit, all the court would require from Ric Turner would be specific performance (build the bass). Courts generally don't allow punitive damages in a contract dispute like this, or even any compensation for lost time, stress, travel expense, etc.

Sorry, but them's the facts! I wish I could tell you otherwise. The good guys don't always win and the Marshall is not going to ride into town and strighten the bad guys out!

Now the credit card idea might have some merit. I think there are some time limitations though?

 

[lbwdog]

It,s time to stop being passive If you are positive that you're in the right! Here is what I would do:
1. Make copies of all written and emailed communication between you two including the forum where he said he would make it right.
2. Make a time line sheet including details of phone calls etc.
3. Send a certified letter indicating that I no longer wish to do business and demand a full refund. ( No rant, be professional) Indicate that your next course of action will be through the legal channels.
If you already have a lawyer, send a cc. to him and indicate that on your letter.
4. If no action is taken, see a lawer. Most won't charge for initial consultation and will tell you your chances of winning.
This is no different than building a house, etc. He is a contractor and if you can show that there was no misunderstanding in the beginning you should sail through this.
It is a misconception that the Better Bus. Bureau can "put them out of business". They will contact him to try to resolve the issue and if no results, will list him in their database.
One other thing, If I were you; Don't post anymore comments in forums which could be seen as defamation. It could hurt your case. You've been patient a lot longer than I would but it's time to resolve it. Good Luck!

 

[mikezimmerman]

Just to clear up.
The first bass I ordered was a custom bass.
Special pickup configuation, they had to rout body different.
And I also requeated a certian finish.

The bass I received was a standard model.
Not the pickups I ordered, and the wrong finish.
The bass took 4 months longer that I was told.
The reason Ric, gave me was they had to re-finish my body, so they had to strip it and refinish it again.
After all that I got the wrong bass.
In march Ric said he would biuld me second bass, to make things right.
I'am still waiting.

Yep, that's pretty clearly the "wrong bass"! Thanks for clarifying.

FWIW, the problems I ran into with the Turner shop (way back when they did lots of repairs and Bill Asher was handling that end) also had to do with the specs on an order being "forgotten" and long delays in getting the work done.

Mike

 

[SBassman]

But reality is, his only recourse would be to file a law suit. My contention is that this would be a losing proposition for him

I hear you, and that may turn out to be true. But, one good thing about lawsuits is - it costs Both sides. In time and money. The builder is apparently very short on time.

It might take lots of time and money to go through the Whole process, but if you're fortunate enough to have a lawyer friend or family member, you can Start the process with low or no dollars and time. And Starting the process might be all that it takes to get the refund.

Let's face it. If the facts we heard are all 100% fact without emotional add-on, then this person absolutely, positively, without a doubt deserves a refund Now.