Double Bass Big band (jazz) charts

[Andy Mopley]

Hi all
over the years I've come across a few of these. On some, the bass part is written, note for note. On others, just the chord symbols are shown.
I can understand that where there is a solo involved, then the chords are there as a reference, but where there is a walking bass line, is your expectation that the only notes that are typically shown are those that are a "must have" - for example a line played at unison - OR that there should be a note for note walking bass line? Like I said, I've seen both over the years, which I've usually put down to the "quality" of the arranger...??
Regards to all

 

[Steven Ayres]

Arrangers frequently leave much of the bass part open to interpretation, specifying just the parts that need it. It's one of the perks of big-band bass.

 

[Nashrakh]

I've come across charts of wildly varying degrees of precision as well, and it is my understanding that if the chart is otherwise leaving it up to you, only parts that are special to the piece are written out, like aforementioned unison lines, or specific hits, et cetera.

I greatly prefer those to wholly-written out charts; I've had a few charts to read that seem to not have been arranged by someone who knows double bass. They were more like what a pianist with no idea of the bass's "anatomy" would play. And usually, there would be no chord reference either, so you'd have to make a separate copy off the guitar or piano chart anyway if you want to re-write any odd lines like that.

 

[AGCurry]

... I've had a few charts to read that seem to not have been arranged by someone who knows double bass. They were more like what a pianist with no idea of the bass's "anatomy" would play...

That's true in classical music as well, IMHO.

 

[longfinger]

Depends on the arrangement, the arranger, the original song, the era it was made, the grade level of the chart (level of the intended band) ...

- Charts for beginners+intermediates will have more written out note for note, than will charts for advanced players.
- "transcriptions" of famous recordings will have more written out note for note, so the big band will sound like the recording once they are playing it right
- Some charts are more tightly arranged than others.

If I'm given a notated bass line, I'll play it. At least for the first few times.
Some charts of jazz standards have the written bass for the head+out, and both notation+chords for the solos, giving players the option of what to do.

Other scores, say big band arrangements of Steely Dan tunes, would likely have written bass all the way through.

Check out this YouTube link for Hal Leonard big band charts

https://www.youtube.com/c/HLJazzEnsemble

You can watch the score scroll by while listening to the recording.

 

[Bruce Calin]

I frequently have high school jazz ensemble students come in with charts that make me cringe. They are too often extremely simple, endlessly repeating, dumb walking lines that must have been written by arrangers who are too ignorant or lazy to write something better. They're meant to be played by students at any level, I guess, but they have little value educationally or musically beyond being able to be played by anybody. Big band bass playing can be kind of thankless, especially for kids, and to have to play dumb parts makes it even more frustrating. Often there are no chord symbols, so I write them in by sight or off a guitar part. I feel like I'm doing someone else's job - my rant for the day.

 

[Bruce Calin]

One more thing- a popular tune I've seen arranged for jazz ensemble is "What is Hip?" by Tower of Power. The original tune is in E. The arrangement is in F, which makes the bass part more of a challenge. Has anyone else seen this?

 

[Don Kasper]

Often there are no chord symbols, so I write them in by sight or off a guitar part. I feel like I'm doing someone else's job - my rant for the day.

Yes!
Adding the chord symbols is a great idea...I don't know why arrangers don't include them.
Your Rant is Justified.
IMFO, of course.
Thanks.

 

[BASSDROID]

If I'm given a notated bass line, I'll play it. At least for the first few times.
Some charts of jazz standards have the written bass for the head+out, and both notation+chords for the solos, giving players the option of what to do.

This is exactly what I do.

Aside of a student level chart, I will assume that a line is written out for a reason. I will play it as written a couple times, mentally extracting what is important about it. Then (provided it is not a unison line or an important melodic fragment) I might depart from it while retaining the critical features.

 

[Bruce Calin]

There is a composer/arranger who writes excellent bass parts for his stuff but doesn't use key signatures and writes in all the accidentals which can be a little weird at first but actually works well once you get used to it. Otherwise, very hip writing and a lot of freedom if you're so inclined.

 

[BassKees]

One more thing- a popular tune I've seen arranged for jazz ensemble is "What is Hip?" by Tower of Power. The original tune is in E. The arrangement is in F, which makes the bass part more of a challenge. Has anyone else seen this?

I haven't yet seen it but the arrangement is probably a lot easyer on the horn and sax sections in F.

 

[Bruce Calin]

I haven't yet seen it but the arrangement is probably a lot easyer on the horn and sax sections in F.

I'm sure that's true, although TofP is a horn band. It's also for BG, so never mind.

 

[Agent0]

One more thing- a popular tune I've seen arranged for jazz ensemble is "What is Hip?" by Tower of Power. The original tune is in E. The arrangement is in F, which makes the bass part more of a challenge. Has anyone else seen this?

Yes I have played that one. Writing it in F shows there was no thought given to the bass part and the fact that you can’t grab a low F like you can an E while playing a fast sixteenth not groove 7 frets up the neck. Playing on 5 string helps.

 

[Steven Ayres]

Big band bass playing can be kind of thankless, especially for kids, ...

I guess the directors forget to tell the students that the function and skill of the bass is of primary importance in big band music.

 

[Bruce Calin]

I guess the directors forget to tell the students that the function and skill of the bass is of primary importance in big band music.

Yes, Steven, that's one of my standard peptalks for the jazz kids. I sometimes describe big band bass playing as "chopping wood"- not glamorous but very necessary. At least it gets a laugh and shows I empathize.

 

[Bruce Calin]

Yes I have played that one. Writing it in F shows there was no thought given to the bass part and the fact that you can’t grab a low F like you can an E while playing a fast sixteenth not groove 7 frets up the neck. Playing on 5 string helps.

I play in a big band that has several doctors as members and we played that chart at a pretty fast tempo and I said I would keep playing it if one of them would treat my carpal tunnel for free.

 

[Steven Ayres]

I play in a big band that has several doctors as members and we played that chart at a pretty fast tempo and I said I would keep playing it if one of them would treat my carpal tunnel for free.

Good choice. If it were me (and I think it has been at some point, iirc) I'd uptune and play it on the slab. It's really not a tune appropriate for UB.

 

[Agent0]

Good choice. If it were me (and I think it has been at some point, iirc) I'd uptune and play it on the slab. It's really not a tune appropriate for UB.

Yes in my comment about “What is Hip”, although I know this was a DB thread I assumed we were talking about EB in that case.

 

[notabene]

I've written a lot of bigband charts. If I don't write the chord symbols over the line, I expect literal realization. With chord symbols, players choice.
What has amazed me is that when I'm playing, my charts, the bass parts in the bands ( I also am a wind player), I've discovered that very often, if I play adlib lines , even when I have fully notated the part, the adlib is better than the preconceived notated part. Part of this I can rationalize as being the tempo differences twixt the notated m.m., and the actual tempos. But more than that, the "moment" seems to call for unliteral rendition. A sense of improve (ization or ment) seems built in to "jazz". Also, for me, improvised lines are more "fun" to play, and that fun spirit may show through. Mileage may vary.

 

[lurk]

Sometimes written parts are important to play because they're synched up with the rest of the band, or they are important solo lines that are supposed to be exactly played every time. When I write a chart I specify these with text - play as written. Otherwise written parts are there either for elementary players who have trouble creating lines or for me to hear some kind of bass info when I play back on the computer. In my opinion, a good bassist will always create better lines from chord symbols than I, a pretty good bassist myself if I do say so, will write. So much of what makes a bass line work has to do with what's happening in the moment - the acoustic environment, the volume of everybody involved, the player's own ability and sound, etc. One of my pet peeves as a player is when guys write bass parts with things like drops or fills - bum pa pa dums - that are in a place on the instrument that is awkward to execute so that instead of being a momentum enhancer they are a stumbling block.