... no he's right.. I think Bag End is the name of the property Bilbo lives on.No-- "Baggins" is the hobbit Bag End does have an elf!
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BIG BASS
- Thread starter scott plummer
- Start date
JAUQO III-X
Inactive
The reason I asked what pre you may be using is because a pre would be extremely helpful in assisting you in getting the clear lows that you're going for.
An inboard pre will really make a difference.
And thanks for the shout out.
JAUQO III-X
Inactive
Custom Bartolini to 17HZ frequency,Aguilar standard OBP-3 and The Audere pre(it goes down to an extremely clear 5HZ.
I have serious experience with all the above mentioned pre's.
There is a guy in the UK who plays a bass with a low C#. I think Billy Dickens (The Budda) also has one. I believe they both use Bassoon cabs as the only ones to go down that far. Most good power amps are capable of going that low so it's all up to the speakers.
No offense to the OP.
Attempting to amplify 20 Hz and under to the point where you could compete with a 120 watt tube GTR is an exercise in futility. Really.
I, personally, don't see any professional practicality in having an ERB tuned that low.
Mind you, amplifying 20 Hz to a very loud level would cause some awesome nausea/chest compression. COOOOOL!!!!
Best of luck trying to find a cab smaller than 24" that'll do the job loud enough.
J
Attempting to amplify 20 Hz and under to the point where you could compete with a 120 watt tube GTR is an exercise in futility. Really.
I, personally, don't see any professional practicality in having an ERB tuned that low.
Mind you, amplifying 20 Hz to a very loud level would cause some awesome nausea/chest compression. COOOOOL!!!!
Best of luck trying to find a cab smaller than 24" that'll do the job loud enough.
J
JAUQO III-X
Inactive
Bill Dickens does not have a bass with a low C# string on it,the lowest string on his 9 string Conklin is a F# and he does not use Basson cabs.
Me and bassist Garry Goodman worked with Basson on the design of their 510 cab that was designed specifically to assist in capturing the open Low C# string and to date there were only about 4 or 5 of these cabs made,one went to me and one went to Garry Goodman and the other 2 or 3 went to Japan.
I would have to respectfully disagree with you because I have been using cabs that work fine for my Low C# application for years.
I've been in the studio for the last several weeks working on a new project and I've been using my 510 Basson cab with my sub contra bass(C# F# B E).
I'd have to politely disagree with you too on this one.
5 Hz is in no possible way reproducible on ANY stereo system. If you have any signal/instrument that is producing such frequencies (in a musical setting), all you would be doing is eating headroom in a mix and having everyone wonder what the hell is going on.
Sorry JAUQO III-X, I don't doubt your credentials. But even 17 Hz is useless. Hasn't anyone ever mentioned that if you are pumping out extreme sub bass frequencies through a sound system (club PA, for example) the limiters will kick in and suck all the volume out of a tune because EQUIPMENT WILL HEAR 5-20 Hz, BUT THE EAR CANT?
*Dude you are a great player that I respect a lot, and I want your Warrior bass and Basson cabs
Sorry to highjack the thread Scott.
- Dec 18, 2000
- 13,201
- 340
- Disclosures
- greenboy designs: fEARful, bassic, dually, crazy88 etc
Certainly no portable vented cabs can reproduce sub-30 Hz information at any appreciable SPL. Anyone who tells you differently has been misled or is lying.
What you can do is design vented systems that can reproduce the overtones of the lower-pitched strings without running out of excursion, and the amplification of the first few overtones will convince/cue us that the fundamental is present. And the more emphasis there is on the lower few overtones, the more convincing the "bassness" will be.
If you are doing low-tuned ERB it's either that or go to other technologies such as ELF/INFRA or SERVODRIVE, and if you want those to be at least portable, you will need to limit the SPL of the lowest frequencies. Still, that will at least reproduce them at hearable levels.
What you can do is design vented systems that can reproduce the overtones of the lower-pitched strings without running out of excursion, and the amplification of the first few overtones will convince/cue us that the fundamental is present. And the more emphasis there is on the lower few overtones, the more convincing the "bassness" will be.
If you are doing low-tuned ERB it's either that or go to other technologies such as ELF/INFRA or SERVODRIVE, and if you want those to be at least portable, you will need to limit the SPL of the lowest frequencies. Still, that will at least reproduce them at hearable levels.
JAUQO III-X
Inactive
I'm not going to get into a debate but that's not true,maybe you can't make such frequencies work but I can and do on a regular basis.
5HZ helps in achieving the bottom end clarity of the 17HZ open Low C# frequency.
You can disagree all you want but I have first hand experience.
I have put out a cd and I have another one that I will be releasing soon that proves how useful 17HZ really is especially in a groove context.
you may not have a use for 17HZ but I definitely do.
I've been in the studio(with a drummer) recording a sound sample library of sub contra bass grooves(with and with out drums)that shows just how useful low frequencies can be.
*Dude you are a great player that I respect a lot, and I want your Warrior bass and Basson cabs
Thank you but I no longer own or play Warrior basses(I haven't in almost 5 years).
- Dec 18, 2000
- 13,201
- 340
- Disclosures
- greenboy designs: fEARful, bassic, dually, crazy88 etc
Certainly having flatter extended response upstream of the speaker cab
JAUQO's current CD certainly shows to me that ultra-low tunings can work and supply groove. Whether playback systems can produce the fundamental at any appreciable levels or not, the information from the first few overtones of the lowest pitches makes it obvious that its a workable concept, and that it can be interesting musical territory to explore and share.
- Dec 18, 2000
- 13,201
- 340
- Disclosures
- greenboy designs: fEARful, bassic, dually, crazy88 etc
Great bass in your photos in the rigs of doom thread, scott. To show them inline simply use the
tags on either side of the URL, or use the little image device in the post composition area.
JAUQO III-X
Inactive
Thank you Greenboy.
It's so interesting how people especially bass players are so quick to say what can and cant work for bass and I really find it even more interesting when they have no hands on experience.
It makes me wonder if they even understand the most basic function of the bass and how expandable it's function really is.
It's up to the player to make changes in the evolvement of the instrument itself and not accept any limitations that the instrument may place on them.
I fully agree. I definitely respect that.
We'll save the frequency babble for another thread, I don't want to embarrass in a thread that involved you paving the way for C# ERBs.
I'd have to politely disagree with you too on this one.
5 Hz is in no possible way reproducible on ANY stereo system. If you have any signal/instrument that is producing such frequencies (in a musical setting), all you would be doing is eating headroom in a mix and having everyone wonder what the hell is going on.
Sorry JAUQO III-X, I don't doubt your credentials. But even 17 Hz is useless. Hasn't anyone ever mentioned that if you are pumping out extreme sub bass frequencies through a sound system (club PA, for example) the limiters will kick in and suck all the volume out of a tune because EQUIPMENT WILL HEAR 5-20 Hz, BUT THE EAR CANT?
*Dude you are a great player that I respect a lot, and I want your Warrior bass and Basson cabs
Sorry to highjack the thread Scott.
Here's something that may be of interest. I posted this on another thread:
Well I've let this thread sit long enough without my input, so excuse me as I make a splash in the shallow end of this ERB pool.
As one poster stated earlier "what's the point". I myself asked the very same question directly to Jauqo III-X face to face. I explained that I was not asking to be a smart a** but I just couldn't understand the concept of the use of a C# string as an effective tool in locking a groove. I had many of the same misconceptions as some of you whom have responded to this thread. I explained that I saw the F# and C# srings as just "being there to say that they exist". I thought that in no way could it be possible that properly producing frequencies in the 17Hz-25Hz range could be melodic. I told the man to his face (not hidden on a thread like some do) that I do not believe the human ear could distinguish those tones in a musical capacity, "Jauqo...it will all sound like mud!" I said.
And now...THE REST OF THE STORY!
Jauqo invited me to the studio to hear his latest recording utilizing his Adler Sub-Contra as it was being mixed. I listened to the raw recording, no effects added mind you, as it was being mixed. What I heard TOTALLY BLEW MY MIND! This was nothing like I had expected! The sound was remarkably clear, articulate, strong, and (much to my suprise) intonation was PERFECT! Not some, but ALL, of my misconceptions were disproven! The one thing that was ironic was that individuals who had listened to the recording at different periods through the night all made the same remark..."That s*** sounds like an anaconda on the prowl!". Meaning that the sound was low, stealthy, smooth, thick, methodical, deliberate...and waiting to attack you at any moment. Very much like an anaconda, the sound of the bass will sneak up on you, choke the life outta you and swallow you whole!
Now, I will list the statements that you (the OP and few others) may read that I myself now know to be BS:
1. There is no reason to go beyond F#.
2. You need super specialized, esoteric, super expensive equipment.
3. The scale of your instrument needs to be 35" or greater.
4. Recordings can not be heard on consumer grade equipment.
5. You need jumbo sized, refridgerator looking cabinets.
6. Your instrument has to have some super re-enforced neck because of string tension.
7. ERB players are just show offs.
8. ERB playing is for soloing only.
9. It's not worth exploring sub frequencies unless you have 7 strings or more.
10. All ERB players know what the hell they are talking about!
My advice to the OP:
Take advice from those who have succesfully been where you are trying to go (it's like sex, you can't take advice from someone who is still a virgin seriously can you? ). I won't say that it is a bad thing dealing with others with lack of experience in this area, but I can say that it is not the best thing. You will save yourself alot of time, effort, energy, embarassment, and most of all...MONEY! Hey, you may even have fun on the way to learning something...I know I did!
Now everybody... shut up and play something!!!!!
