Hello, I am new.... so when i do some thing wrong yell till i cry. I built a 10 string bass Tuned C# to A# in fouths. I have a Mesa Boogie stack (400+, 4-10", 15") wich does great for all strings except my 2 lowest strings (F# & C#). So I am wondering if anyone has suggestions about building or buying cabs for my lowend problem. I know of accugroove and bag end, but I have never heard them. Nor am I confident of an ELF making me sound big.
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BIG BASS
- Thread starter scott plummer
- Start date
Sorry I can't help you with your question, but I just HAVE TO put something right: the guy living in bag end is a HOBBIT, not an elf. 
- Dec 18, 2000
- 13,201
- 340
- Disclosures
- greenboy designs: fEARful, bassic, dually, crazy88 etc
Let's talk budget and goals. What size of gigs? PA support? How loud do you want to be? Is it for solo performances or band gigs? etc.
Due to your F# (23 Hz) requirements, a pair of [Invalid or Expired Link Removed] will do what you need in a big way. And they are big.
Build two of these and V-couple them. Put the 10s on top of the stack, and go hurt people. Make no mistake, these are big cabs. 36hx36dx30w inches. The payback for the size is the amount of noise they make, and how low they go.
Build two of these and V-couple them. Put the 10s on top of the stack, and go hurt people. Make no mistake, these are big cabs. 36hx36dx30w inches. The payback for the size is the amount of noise they make, and how low they go.
JAUQO III-X
Inactive
- Dec 18, 2000
- 13,201
- 340
- Disclosures
- greenboy designs: fEARful, bassic, dually, crazy88 etc
Makes a difference to any elephants in the province.
Also nice for watching high-budget documentaries or fictions about earthquakes.
Thank you everybody for responding and sorry it took me while to get back. The F# does ok by my stack but could be better but the C# is a little over 17 hertz. and pipe organs usualy had a response as low as 16 hertz. Some people are said to have hearing capabilities down that low not just the overgeneralized 20h to20kh. I love the sound of the F# at loud volumes even though its supported mainly by the one mesa 15". That I have to say waste all I have played through and I have a/b tested with swr 18" Thank you bgavin I will check it out. I am trying to keep the price in the $2000 range. It Will be multi purpose rigg for Maybe solo ( if I ever am good enough) But mainly for a technical death/ grind band wich most gigs the foh is only good enuogh for the vocalist and a little drums. So it may have to support me enough to keep up with my guitarists 120 watt tube full stack.
My bass is Passive with no tone control at all. I was expierimenting wth running it thruogh my jp's preamp. I just really like the way my tone came through on my bass. beginers luck? I have Villex pickups. I run straight in to my Input withno effects. Btw JAUQO III-X is why I chose Villex pickups and decided that I am not crazy, or least not alone lol jk. But thank you for paving a way for us who want to go lower.
- Dec 18, 2000
- 13,201
- 340
- Disclosures
- greenboy designs: fEARful, bassic, dually, crazy88 etc
I'd say the first relistic requirement is to have a rig which can reproduce the first (and second) overtone of the lowest pitches within -3dB from the median output without running out of excursion at live performance levels, without compromising tone. It becomes increasingly difficult to make the transition to full and equal support for the octave-lower fundamental.
But among the very few SR-oriented systems that can actually produce meaningful output at C#0 and F#0, the larger INFRA systems are worth investigating as a subwoofing section that can supplement sub-bass output if not be on equal footing with the content above. Also Servodrive.
But among the very few SR-oriented systems that can actually produce meaningful output at C#0 and F#0, the larger INFRA systems are worth investigating as a subwoofing section that can supplement sub-bass output if not be on equal footing with the content above. Also Servodrive.
120w to a guitar player is a seriously loud amount of noise. My daughter plays a vintage Marshall JCM-800 which is only 50w. Her Marshall stack is incredibly loud, and at only 50w.
To get the absolute maximum loudness, all your speakers have to be wired in parallel. This means your amp channel(s) have to able to support multiple cabs, all in parallel. A typical example would be a QSC or similar power amp, which has two channels each capable of 4 ohms. You could connect four 8-ohm cabs, all in parallel, on the two QSC channels.
If you are trying to power all this from a Mesa head, IMO you are out of gas. Take a LINE OUT from the Mesa, into an active crossover and use it to drive a two-channel power amp for the subs.
With an 8-ohm driver, the T36 has a nominal impedance of 10~12 ohms due to the horn loading. Considering your very low frequency requirements, an impedance measurement sweep should be done from the lowest of your operating frequencies. The lowest impedance dictates the rating for your cabs, because that is what your amp will see, worst case. It can never be any lower than the DC resistance of the voice coil, no matter what frequency. This is 5.3 ohms for an Eminence 3015LF driver.
If you have the trailer space, four full size T36 bass horns will completely crush anything you can get in a direct radiator (vented) box of similar volume. The link below shows what you can realistically expect from a stack of T36.
SPL Charts for T36
If your 410 stack is typical, one can assume it has an SPL of 100 for realistic output at 100 Hz. Four T36 will give you 105 SPL at 20 Hz. Response increases as the frequency goes up, so you would have to EQ down the higher bass range to keep it at 100 SPL. Otherwise, the stack will exceed 115 SPL above 45 Hz, and drown out the 410.
This rig is great for outdoor gigs without full PA support. If you bring this rig to a venue with full PA support, the sound man will hate you. Four bass horns is more bottom than any club I've seen so far. If you are playing indoor gigs, a single T36 facing into a corner will produce a huge bottom and still be devastatingly loud.
Thanks bgavin. You are very informative. That is sounding like the best option and best price. I worry about the tone of the box. how fast is the response. Although if anything that cab would be a great addition any pa.
Would 2 mesa 15" speakers compare? in the same cab with some cab changes to adjust for the difference. This might be a stupid question, but I am all around impressed with its attack.
billfitzmaurice
Commercial User
- Sep 15, 2004
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- Owner, Bill Fitzmaurice Loudspeaker Design
The infra system works well, but it's extremely power hungry. Power demands rise at a rate of 12dB per octave, which means it takes 16 times as much power at 17 Hz as it does at 34 Hz.
Below 80 Hz there is no such thing as either speed or tone. Those characteristics exist only in the midbass and higher frequencies.
- Dec 18, 2000
- 13,201
- 340
- Disclosures
- greenboy designs: fEARful, bassic, dually, crazy88 etc
At the time I heard a Bag End low-frequency product the series was dubbed ELF, but INFRA is essentially the same with better control over configuration. Since then Bag End has also procured suitable drivers with better power handling, which translates into more SPL at the lower reaches.
Skip of Knuckle Guitar Works has also used them.
- Dec 18, 2000
- 13,201
- 340
- Disclosures
- greenboy designs: fEARful, bassic, dually, crazy88 etc
Yep. To build a system around ELF/INFRA with equal representation in the sub-bass requires a very large high-powered system. However, to at least have some audible support of the fundamental and lowest first overtones is perhaps more practical.
