Big difference on putting 2x10 vertically

[semborg]

So I had a gig last night, and my guitarrist told me to put my cab on its side like a high tower.

Wow, so much better sound, much more accurately and focused.
The amp did what I told it to do with my fingers.

Just wanted to tell for you

 

[MuzikMan]

Part of this was probably because of one of the drivers being closer to ear level. Off axis response from left to right (horizontally) is also supposed to be improved with vertically aligned drivers. This is exactly why I am building a vertical array 4x8 cab.

 

[Esquillama]

I tried this out last night myself. I was going to put the 2x10
on an amp stand in front of me, but the "arms" on the amp stand
weren't long enough to hold it. So instead, I put it vertically
on the ground off to the side in front.

We played outside and I could hear myself, and so could my
bandmates. We have another gig next saturday outside, then
the next week, I'll get a chance to try it out indoors. I don't
want to decide to keep my 1x15 at home until I try the 2x10
indoors by itself first.

I read a while ago that speakers placed in a vertical alignment
would sound better because of "phase" issues. I believe it was
billfitzmaurice that told me about that.

Anyway, I think this will be a good way to lighten my rig,
and still have plenty of sound for stage volume and clarity.

 

[billfitzmaurice]

The wisdom of vertical placement has been known in the audio world for about 70 years. Blame Leo Fender for putting drivers on the horizontal plane because it better matched up with an amp chassis that way, setting a flawed standard. At least he got the PBass right.

 

[KJung]

I tried this out last night myself. I was going to put the 2x10
on an amp stand in front of me, but the "arms" on the amp stand
weren't long enough to hold it. So instead, I put it vertically
on the ground off to the side in front.

We played outside and I could hear myself, and so could my
bandmates. We have another gig next saturday outside, then
the next week, I'll get a chance to try it out indoors. I don't
want to decide to keep my 1x15 at home until I try the 2x10
indoors by itself first.

I read a while ago that speakers placed in a vertical alignment
would sound better because of "phase" issues. I believe it was
billfitzmaurice that told me about that.

Anyway, I think this will be a good way to lighten my rig,
and still have plenty of sound for stage volume and clarity.

I don't think you can have a general rule here... so much depends on the particular room acoustics. Many times, if you have a small cab and a room that isn't particularly 'bottom heavy', I find that 'coupling' the cab to the floor as much as possible (i.e., putting the small 210 horizontally) results in better low end and a better sound out in front of the cab. In other rooms that are boomy, or when you aren't playing very loud, the vertical position results in being able to hear yourself a little better when you are right on top of the cab, and also reduces that amount of total low end a little.

In my experience, putting a small cab way up off the floor on a stand (with bass guitar anyway) becomes a little too extreme, resulting in a massive loss of low end punch and projection.

 

[KJung]

The wisdom of vertical placement has been known in the audio world for about 70 years. Blame Leo Fender for putting drivers on the horizontal plane because it better matched up with an amp chassis that way, setting a flawed standard. At least he got the PBass right.

I totally agree with this.... all other things being equal (which they usually aren't... especially in the bass world). However, if you are somewhat underpowered and/or 'under-cabbed' for a particular gig, or have unusual room acoustics, 'breaking' from that wisdom (IMO) can many times 'improve' the sound.

 

[boogiebass]

Blame Leo Fender...At least he got the PBass right.

 

[semborg]

Part of this was probably because of one of the drivers being closer to ear level.

No, even if I put my amp horizont on a chair it is still MUCH better to put it Vertical (Like a tower).

 

[Matt H]

No, even if I put my amp horizont on a chair it is still MUCH better to put it Vertical (Like a tower).

right, but when it's on an amp stand, you're not getting the acoustic coupling of placing it on the floor

when you place it vertical, you're getting more sound closer to ear level AND still have acoustic coupling. place your 2x10 vertically AND put it on a stand, you'll see what he's getting at.

 

[KJung]

right, but when it's on an amp stand, you're not getting the acoustic coupling of placing it on the floor

when you place it vertical, you're getting more sound closer to ear level AND still have acoustic coupling. place your 2x10 vertically AND put it on a stand, you'll see what he's getting at.

+1

 

[tombowlus]

Stacking two 2x10's vertically can work quite well, too. I just used this rig last Saturday night:

Tom.

 

[KJung]

Stacking two 2x10's vertically can work quite well, too. I just used this rig last Saturday night:

Tom.

Man, I wish those Acme's fit my sound profile preference a little better. I used that same 'vertical' stack for a while, and while it wasn't totally my thing tone-wise (it sounded great... just not the sound I was looking for), it looked SO COOL and had such a wonderfully small footprint The vertical array of two stacked 210's, but the way, does work very well.... It seems with two of them, you actually have enough 'height' that the real effect of the vertical array starts to kick in.... and you have enough cone area to pump out some bottom at volume.

 

[tombowlus]

Man, I wish those Acme's fit my sound profile preference a little better. I used that same 'vertical' stack for a while, and while it wasn't totally my thing tone-wise (it sounded great... just not the sound I was looking for), it looked SO COOL and had such a wonderfully small footprint The vertical array of two stacked 210's, but the way, does work very well.... It seems with two of them, you actually have enough 'height' that the real effect of the vertical array starts to kick in.... and you have enough cone area to pump out some bottom at volume.

This past weekend was the first time that I had tried two ACME's in this room (I actually gigged this room with one powered by my iAMP 800, and it did really well, but this band is louder). I chose the Stewart as my amp mostly because it was already in that rack (to which I later added the Kern) and my two CA9's were nicely tucked away in my PA amp rack. Plus, it just looks good with the Kern! But, to be honest, I think that really should have brought the CA9. The low B on my chambered 535 is so huge that it demands a lot from the amp, and at one point in the evening, I thought that I had blown both ACME's until I looked up at the Stewart and saw that I was clipping into the red whenever I played below low E (yes, this is a loud band!). When you run out of rail juice, the resulting sound is not pretty! I can't imagine that I would have had the same problem with the CA9, so next time I try this rig, I am going to bring the big lead sled.

That said, I don't think that this rig was ideal for the chambered MTD. It works great for my 435, but the low end is almost overwhelming with the Kern and the ACME's driven by the chambered 535. I'm thinking EA cabs are the way to go with that baby!

Later, Tom.

 

[KJung]

This past weekend was the first time that I had tried two ACME's in this room (I actually gigged this room with one powered by my iAMP 800, and it did really well, but this band is louder). I chose the Stewart as my amp mostly because it was already in that rack (to which I later added the Kern) and my two CA9's were nicely tucked away in my PA amp rack. Plus, it just looks good with the Kern! But, to be honest, I think that really should have brought the CA9. The low B on my chambered 535 is so huge that it demands a lot from the amp, and at one point in the evening, I thought that I had blown both ACME's until I looked up at the Stewart and saw that I was clipping into the red whenever I played below low E (yes, this is a loud band!). When you run out of rail juice, the resulting sound is not pretty! I can't imagine that I would have had the same problem with the CA9, so next time I try this rig, I am going to bring the big lead sled.

That said, I don't think that this rig was ideal for the chambered MTD. It works great for my 435, but the low end is almost overwhelming with the Kern and the ACME's driven by the chambered 535. I'm thinking EA cabs are the way to go with that baby!

Later, Tom.

+1 on the MTD B string... mine us HUGE... which quite frankly is not necessarily a good thing for punch and useability in a giggin situation. Yeah, with my Walter and the two ACME's and the MTD, it always felt like the speakers were going to pop right out of the front of the cab at moderate volumes. Even though as you know I've moved away from the EA thing, I found my old VL210 sounded the best with my MTD... it took the low B, and the extreme high end treble capability of the MTD resulted in some sparkle coming out of that cab... very nice!

 

[tombowlus]

+1 on the MTD B string... mine us HUGE... which quite frankly is not necessarily a good thing for punch and useability in a giggin situation. Yeah, with my Walter and the two ACME's and the MTD, it always felt like the speakers were going to pop right out of the front of the cab at moderate volumes. Even though as you know I've moved away from the EA thing, I found my old VL210 sounded the best with my MTD... it took the low B, and the extreme high end treble capability of the MTD resulted in some sparkle coming out of that cab... very nice!

Yes indeed, I had those four 10's really dancing! I bit moreso than I like (and I also think the CA9 would have offered more control over cone excursion). And it's nice to hear that you also thought that the VL-210 shines with an MTD. After playing a few notes on the chambered 535 through the ACME's, I thought to myself, "next time, VL-210's!"

Later, Tom.

P.S.
We need to meet up at LDS soon so you can here Marilyn #3! Talk about a huge sounding low B!!!

 

[KJung]

P.S.
We need to meet up at LDS soon so you can here Marilyn #3! Talk about a huge sounding low B!!!

Any time... I can be there in 25 minutes!

 

[boogiebass]

...When you run out of rail juice, the resulting sound is not pretty! I can't imagine that I would have had the same problem with the CA9, so next time I try this rig, I am going to bring the big lead sled...I'm thinking EA cabs are the way to go with that baby!

Later, Tom.

I recently sold both of my Stews. The Crest is the way to go, IMO, and I like Bergantino cabs with mine (no surprise). You're in for a treat when you use the MTD with your Wizzy's, too.

 

[kringle77]

I use my avatar 2x10's with an Aguilar ag500 head and stack them this way sometimes. Most of the time they are on their sides but on opposite sids of the stage out front with the pa. I use in ear monitors now, so there is no need for stage amps and the people out front get to hear my rig the way it supposed to be. I never have to turn up past 9 or 10 o'clock with this rig. Light too!