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Big E Speakers Part 4 - Quadraphenia
- Thread starter kesslari
- Start date
There’s still a twinge of disbelief how good it sounds every time I switch it on.
That NS bass is super hip. Would love to play a bit on that!
I feel the same way about the B28 just 2 gigs in. Did a very small bar last weekend and the upright was divine. The MA109 was a gateway drug 4 sure!!!
Hey BigE MAS community, I have a some questions of speaker choices in these cabs. I should mention that I also have a PM with Mike and we talked on the phone briefly about it as well, I am just looking for other experiences regarding this question in addition to his brilliance.
I have just ordered the B28 M18 combo and very excited
, I also have an older MAS112 that is the subject of this post.
My 112 is a great cab, but I have struggled with it sound wise for some time and due to that it doesn't get nearly enough gig time; just have been too busy to get it addressed. Mine appears to have the Faital woofer in it. My issue is extreme low end, that is very hard to eq out. I played it at a medium sized club last night, and it did sound great, and I had lots of compliments. This low end I speak of, however, is just dominant. There is a very fine line where I can get an even sound where it isn't too much. A slight cut in lows and it just overly thins out and is abrasive in the upper regions. I cut in the lows, use a HPF and at that point I have to boost upper-lows low-mids to get some booty back - but even adjusting in that region is a very fine line between really, really thick and too thinned out. I have done the standard setting everything "flat" on the amp and starting over, looking only to cut etc etc. Used many amps with it including DB751, AmpegPF800, mM1000 and my current WD800 (which sounds the best so far). So, too my questions;
Mike says that this is likely due to the Faital woofer. I want to change that out, and I see that my choices are the custom Eminence and the 18sound. How would you guys compare and contrast these three woofers??
For some background on me that could help. I play 5 string in Blues, Country, Southern/Classic rock. I like some meat and power and don't want to cut as much as sit in mix, support and be solid. I do really like articulation and clarity, but not at the expense of a "thinner" sound.
Thanks for your thoughts!!!
I have just ordered the B28 M18 combo and very excited
, I also have an older MAS112 that is the subject of this post.My 112 is a great cab, but I have struggled with it sound wise for some time and due to that it doesn't get nearly enough gig time; just have been too busy to get it addressed. Mine appears to have the Faital woofer in it. My issue is extreme low end, that is very hard to eq out. I played it at a medium sized club last night, and it did sound great, and I had lots of compliments. This low end I speak of, however, is just dominant. There is a very fine line where I can get an even sound where it isn't too much. A slight cut in lows and it just overly thins out and is abrasive in the upper regions. I cut in the lows, use a HPF and at that point I have to boost upper-lows low-mids to get some booty back - but even adjusting in that region is a very fine line between really, really thick and too thinned out. I have done the standard setting everything "flat" on the amp and starting over, looking only to cut etc etc. Used many amps with it including DB751, AmpegPF800, mM1000 and my current WD800 (which sounds the best so far). So, too my questions;
Mike says that this is likely due to the Faital woofer. I want to change that out, and I see that my choices are the custom Eminence and the 18sound. How would you guys compare and contrast these three woofers??
For some background on me that could help. I play 5 string in Blues, Country, Southern/Classic rock. I like some meat and power and don't want to cut as much as sit in mix, support and be solid. I do really like articulation and clarity, but not at the expense of a "thinner" sound.
Thanks for your thoughts!!!
Did your conversation with Mike cover the "integration point" (where the lows, mids, and highs come together). In other words, you have to stand a few feet away from the cabinet to hear what it is actually delivering. It will sound thin when you're next to it, but thicker out in the room. Make sense? It's been a few years since I played through a 112. Most of my experience is with the 10's (Flex/Bodai).
I use a D-800+ at home into a 110 Flex. I was surprised to read about some players perceiving it as "not bright enough". Great amp, IMO. I'd love to hear the WD-800 with my cabs, but I don't have plans to switch horses at this point.
I use a D-800+ at home into a 110 Flex. I was surprised to read about some players perceiving it as "not bright enough". Great amp, IMO. I'd love to hear the WD-800 with my cabs, but I don't have plans to switch horses at this point.
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Did your conversation with Mike cover the "integration point" (where the lows, mids, and highs come together). In other words, you have to stand a few feet away from the cabinet to hear what it is actually delivering. It will sound thin when you're next to it, but thicker out in the room. Make sense? It's been a few years since I played through a 112. Most of my experience is with the 10's (Flex/Bodai).
I use a D-800+ at home into a 110 Flex. I was surprised to read about some players perceiving it as "not bright enough". Great amp, IMO. I'd love to hear the WD-800 with my cabs, but I don't have plans to switch horses at this point.
I could stand maybe 10 feet away or so. I agree, it should sound different out in the room as things "come together". But Mike's description of the Faital is that it would make a great Reggae cab, My experience tends to agree with that. Still sounds great, just deep end is a little hard to adjust. Last night I tried laying on its side with an amp wedge kicking it up somewhat (may have been better on a stand, but most of our stages don't lend to that space.
- Dec 21, 2007
- 15,227
- 45,062
- Disclosures
- Lark in the Morning Instructional Videos; Audix Microphones
Absolutely, it is a standard part of my signal chain always. I have the built in one with the WD800 as well as a board mounted one. One of my most important tools for years now.
I don't want to try and make the Faital sound better, I want to replace with a woofer that is more in line with my goals. Custom Eminence and 18sound are the other choices from MAS. I just haven't heard those and was curious of the differences from those in the know.
Everything would be integrated at 10ft. Another 112 expert other that Mike would be @MarkA - give him a little time and he'll probably chime in...
- May 15, 2007
- 344
- 465
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- Owner RAD Repairs and RAD Engineering ,guitar, bass, and amp repair and limited custom instrument and amp building.
I’ve had the 18sound, Faital, and the proprietary Emiminence in my MAS112 and by far preferred the Eminence. It has a much more conventional electric bass sound, nicer mids, deep, but not the sub woofer sound.
- May 15, 2007
- 344
- 465
- Disclosures
- Owner RAD Repairs and RAD Engineering ,guitar, bass, and amp repair and limited custom instrument and amp building.
I stopped by Mike’s yesterday and he was trying out a new Faital 10 in the new 10 cab next to one with the Eminence 10. The one with the Faital sounded to me slightly louder, clearer, and handled more power before it crapped out. The Eminence 10 is amazing, the Faital, a little more.
Hey BigE MAS community, I have a some questions of speaker choices in these cabs. I should mention that I also have a PM with Mike and we talked on the phone briefly about it as well, I am just looking for other experiences regarding this question in addition to his brilliance.
I have just ordered the B28 M18 combo and very excited
My 112 is a great cab, but I have struggled with it sound wise for some time and due to that it doesn't get nearly enough gig time; just have been too busy to get it addressed. Mine appears to have the Faital woofer in it. My issue is extreme low end, that is very hard to eq out. I played it at a medium sized club last night, and it did sound great, and I had lots of compliments. This low end I speak of, however, is just dominant. There is a very fine line where I can get an even sound where it isn't too much. A slight cut in lows and it just overly thins out and is abrasive in the upper regions. I cut in the lows, use a HPF and at that point I have to boost upper-lows low-mids to get some booty back - but even adjusting in that region is a very fine line between really, really thick and too thinned out. I have done the standard setting everything "flat" on the amp and starting over, looking only to cut etc etc. Used many amps with it including DB751, AmpegPF800, mM1000 and my current WD800 (which sounds the best so far). So, too my questions;
Mike says that this is likely due to the Faital woofer. I want to change that out, and I see that my choices are the custom Eminence and the 18sound. How would you guys compare and contrast these three woofers??
For some background on me that could help. I play 5 string in Blues, Country, Southern/Classic rock. I like some meat and power and don't want to cut as much as sit in mix, support and be solid. I do really like articulation and clarity, but not at the expense of a "thinner" sound.
Thanks for your thoughts!!!
The only versions of the MAS 112 I've heard in person are my 18Sound version (which I've played in small pubs, loud clubs, and outdoors) and the custom Eminence version (I think on two occasions -- once briefly A/Bing it with my 18Sound cab at Mike's place). Note: the custom Eminence version was not the most recent, downsized cab that Mike makes -- same enclosure that you and I have, @Gab124.
I have not heard the Faital version, but Mike has heard me play and, between that and conversations we've had, has a pretty good idea of what I go for. When I asked him about the Faital driver, years ago (custom Eminence wasn't available at the time), he did not recommend it for me. The impression that I got was that it would be more suited to big-bottomed Blues, Reggae, etc. -- not that it would necessarily be limited to those styles, but that the tonal balance and overall presentation was bigger in the lows and bloomier than I typically shoot for.
While my 18Sound-equipped cab has worked great (and garnered plenty of compliments), in a variety of spaces and musical settings and with a variety of amps, for me, for most people I would recommend the custom Eminence driver over it. I might even go that way myself, if I were choosing today.
Both drivers are very articulate in that cab (though I recall the 18 Sound being perhaps a bit moreso), but native voicing of the cab with the 18Sound is more "lean and mean" -- there is less emphasis in the upper bass/lower mids. I also recall the mids on the Eminence cab sounding a little more organic off the bat -- 18Sound cab is very clean, but can get some grind going in the upper mids, while I recall the Eminence cab having just a bit more hair (in a pleasing way) on the notes and more of a mid-mid growl than an upper-mid grind.
18Sound cab has perhaps a bit more kick at the bottom of its register but Eminence cab seemed to have more "chest-punch" (though, again, both cabs are very articulate).
Overall, the 18Sound cab is very flexible and responds well to EQ -- I don't ever find myself lacking for bass with it -- and no funny "holes" in the sound to EQ around -- but it's the opposite of a "cushy" cab both in voicing and in its note-envelope (which is influenced by your amp and technique, true, but tends to the up-front and hard-edged with that cab more than with, say, my MAS 46 + 110 sub, which is still articulate but can get that "pillow" of sound under a band if you want it). The custom Eminence version had a little more booty and just enough edge taken off the notes to make them feel rounder but still pop (and it's still more articulate than the vast majority of ported cabs, which can sound blurry in the deep lows by comparison, particularly in staccato playing).
Been awhile since I heard the cab but, playing it next to mine, that's how I recall it. The Eminence driver is also a bit more efficient than the 18Sound and is 4 Ohms (whereas the 18Sound was only available in 8 Ohms when I got mine). I suspect that it would be a better match for the WD-800 than the 18Sound would, particularly in loud settings.
Did your conversation with Mike cover the "integration point" (where the lows, mids, and highs come together). In other words, you have to stand a few feet away from the cabinet to hear what it is actually delivering. It will sound thin when you're next to it, but thicker out in the room. Make sense? It's been a few years since I played through a 112. Most of my experience is with the 10's (Flex/Bodai)...
I use a D-800+ at home into a 110 Flex. I was surprised to read about some players perceiving it as "not bright enough". Great amp, IMO. I'd love to hear the WD-800 with my cabs, but I don't have plans to switch horses at this point.
Re. "integration point" I think that you only need to be a few feet out from the cab -- certainly it's happening well before 10 feet -- but I find that I can monitor well with the 112 (and that it still sounds good) even if I have to stand very near it. I had an early (two-way) MAS 66 where the "sounds better a few feet out" thing was more noticeable -- I thought, at the time, that that had to do with crossover refinement (and I know that Mike has refined his crossovers a lot since then), but maybe it had to do with the whole "wave integration" thing as well.
As for putting the cab horizontal, you might notice a more "3D" sound that way, but you'd need to elevate it as well if the goal is to thin-out the bass.
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Would you consider the new 10 more studio monitor-ish like the eminence 10 or more bass cab-ish like the 12?
It looks like from the comments that the Eminence may be the right choice for me. I have a few more gigs next week in places I have not played the MAS12 with Faital, so I am going to wait and see how that goes. I also might wait to get my B28M18 combo in and check those out first as well before ordering a new woofer.
Thanks everyone for your great comments and thoughts.
Thanks everyone for your great comments and thoughts.
