Big E Speakers Part 4 - Quadraphenia

[Superbird]

Mike is to cabs what Sheldon is to basses. Both are in a different league...

Just need the Dingwall now!

 

[Superbird]

Got to spend an hour out in the crowd at the jam last night with 3 bass players running the new B28... stunning with headroom to spare

 

[radbass]

I visited Mike Thursday and got to listen to two of his new speakers, the MAS 112 and the new MAS 10. The 12 is smaller than the old 112, about the size of the old 109, which had a 10. If I remember correctly, the new cab doesn’t extend as low as the original 112, but it’s stronger in the low mids, more useful as a bass cab, and is a lot punchier. I think this is the loudest single cab in his lineup and it sounds amazing. The sides in front are cut away around the 12 which seems to give it better dispersion and more even tone. This cab would cover any job, even outside or huge rooms with a loud drummer.
The second cab was the 10, that’s like a slightly larger version of the 8. This thing just blew me away. By itself it’s about equal in volume to a 3x8 that we set up next to it. Tried it next to 2 1x8’s and it was stronger. The 8’s and the Bodai go a little deeper and have more hi-fi sound, but the 10 just pounds on you with the low mids. The 10 puts out an insane amount of incredible MAS sound in a smaller package that only weighs 29 lbs. I think this thing would kill a super 12 and give most 2x12s a run for their money.

 

[Pat C.]

The second cab was the 10, that’s like a slightly larger version of the 8. This thing just blew me away. By itself it’s about equal in volume to a 3x8 that we set up next to it.

What 3x8 are you referring to, was it a B38 or something else?

 

[radbass]

It’s Bodai 3x8.

 

[kesslari]

I visited Mike Thursday and got to listen to two of his new speakers, the MAS 112 and the new MAS 10. The 12 is smaller than the old 112, about the size of the old 109, which had a 10. If I remember correctly, the new cab doesn’t extend as low as the original 112, but it’s stronger in the low mids, more useful as a bass cab, and is a lot punchier. I think this is the loudest single cab in his lineup and it sounds amazing. The sides in front are cut away around the 12 which seems to give it better dispersion and more even tone. This cab would cover any job, even outside or huge rooms with a loud drummer.
The second cab was the 10, that’s like a slightly larger version of the 8. This thing just blew me away. By itself it’s about equal in volume to a 3x8 that we set up next to it. Tried it next to 2 1x8’s and it was stronger. The 8’s and the Bodai go a little deeper and have more hi-fi sound, but the 10 just pounds on you with the low mids. The 10 puts out an insane amount of incredible MAS sound in a smaller package that only weighs 29 lbs. I think this thing would kill a super 12 and give most 2x12s a run for their money.

That's interesting, and perhaps a bit disturbing. You would think that a MAS 28 would be louder than a MAS 10, with both getting equal "additional volume" from the MVW technology, and that a MAS 38 would be significantly larger.
It suggests that the "vortex effect" on the 8's is less than on the new 10. So either the new design provides more than double the VD of the speakers in a "normal ported box" (which is how Mike described the Bodais) or the Bodai and earlier designs provide less than double the VD.

Since (sigh) @Mike Arnopol can't reply on this thread, perhaps @Stephen Regier can. I'll also ask it on the Bodai thread where Mike can reply.

 

[radbass]

As I understand it the larger waveguide on the 10, which is also longer, adds to the overall maximum level, and the 10 is stronger in the lower mids, not that there is any lack of bottom, it’s just that the 8s go crazy low and that speaker design gives up some volume for the low extension. As I said in another thread, if you think that’s disturbing in theory, you should experience it.

 

[Razman]

So I'm in a conundrum (well, I guess it's not a conundrum until I free up the $$ for it, but I digress), there is a Phil Jones Suitcase (v1) near me for sale and I've been hoping to pick it up to have a small practice rig for at home or wherever (the rare occasion when I play with someone other than my band, which is almost never). However, for the price ($400-$500) I'm in used MAS territory, so what would be the better option?

I like the Suitcase as it is amp + cab in a compact (albeit heavy) little unit. My current amp is an Ampeg B-1r in a 3u rack and a power conditioner and it produces 150 watts. I mainly use it as a preamp into my church's big rig (Mesa 400 into a fridge) but have used it to power cabs on occasion. If I leave it in our practice space, then having a separate unit like the Suitcase becomes more attractive. But after searching this thread for any PJB info/comparo's I saw a post I made back in 2014 and realized I have been lurking here for 5 years without ever owning one. So maybe I should go with one of Mike's cabs. And yes, I know where I am posting this question and have some idea which way answers might be biased.

A recurring theme among PJB reviews is volume to power/weight/cost ratio. I have those needs met; I'm mainly looking at portability and tone quality. And a small Peavey or Rumble just doesn't appeal to me.

So please chime in with feedback; I have a couple of ideas but wanted to see what others thought.

Eric

 

[kesslari]

Get a MAS 1,8. Get a powered one if you want. Tiny, light, amazingly deep, loud and clear.
You're welcome. Drive home safely.

 

[Razman]

Mike is very responsive - here's what he PM'd me:

For comparison
A Suitcase will move around 200 cc's of air.
A MAS16 will move around 150 cc's of air.
A MAS18 will move around 350 cc's of air.

MAS16 14 x 9 x 14 13#
MAS18 17 x 14 x 20 29#

Either can be powered. The price of adding a power module has gone up to $400. The reason is that it's definitely worth it to get the new custom Pascal 1200 watt module. With the Pascal I can add a master volume and adjust the gain so that it can be driven by an active bass. Much more available input gain with this module.

Call with any questions
thanks
Mike

As usual, his continuous improvements and offerings don't make this an easy process! Thankfully I'm limited by budget, and that's if I'm able to meet all my current obligations this tax season.

I was thinking of something wide enough to set the rack on, like the 2x8 Bodai; if I left my amp at the church I could put an Elf on top of it and stand it up. Mike's powered offering looks intriguing though...

Eric

 

[J.Wolf]

PJB suitcase is very nice sounding. Not in the same performance universe as the MAS 8" stuff, but nice nonetheless.

I'd take a powered 18 all day, over a Suitcase.

 

[coyoteboy]

FWIW, I find the pjb amps sound very nice through the MAS. I may be the only perpetrator of this setup, however.

 

[spiritbass]

Has anyone heard any more word on how development of the new High Pass Filter is going?

 

[Haroldo]

And to reiterate: a plain-Jane (i.e., non-powered) MAS 1,8 is a gorgeous, gorgeous thing, also.

 

[Dee-man]

Howdy all. Was able to snag a M28 here.

Silly question perhaps, but I was wondering if it's okay for me to put the cab on its side, baffle side down, between the floor and speakers (strap up). The cab I got has no feet on this side of the cab, but I can put cab on a gramma pad or whatever. This is basically the opposite of the wedge position shown on the MAS site. Alternatively, I could put it in the wedge position or with the handle side on the floor (speakers between floor and baffle), which might be 6 of one and a half dozen of another. In my short test-drive so far, as compared to the upright cab position, the one with baffle along the floor side sounded more open and less dark (which could be fixed with EQ when cab was upright).

Also, for those who have rubber feet for the non-upright position, does anyone have those on the non-handle/baffle side, or should that side not take any screws because it's not thick enough?

Thanks, DM

 

[MarkA]

Howdy all. Was able to snag a M28 here.

Silly question perhaps, but I was wondering if it's okay for me to put the cab on its side, baffle side down, between the floor and speakers (strap up). The cab I got has no feet on this side of the cab, but I can put cab on a gramma pad or whatever. This is basically the opposite of the wedge position shown on the MAS site. Alternatively, I could put it in the wedge position or with the handle side on the floor (speakers between floor and baffle), which might be 6 of one and a half dozen of another. In my short test-drive so far, as compared to the upright cab position, the one with baffle along the floor side sounded more open and less dark (which could be fixed with EQ when cab was upright).

Also, for those who have rubber feet for the non-upright position, does anyone have those on the non-handle/baffle side, or should that side not take any screws because it's not thick enough?

Thanks, DM

Hey, DM,

I can't answer your question, but I wonder if you might try the cab slightly elevated (like on one of those small, folding, plastic step-stools you can get at a variety of places).

I also don't know how loudly you're playing or in how big a space but, with my older MAS 112, played at apartment-practice volume in my small living room, it sounds darker (lows masking the mids and highs a bit) than at even fairly quiet gig volume (then, everything opens up and is better-balanced and more detailed -- also more "3D" and you can feel the cab start to "kick"). As I've had it, I've started to practice less through that cab at home (it's just too much cab to really shine under those conditions) but to appreciate it more and more on the gig (especially when I end up playing something else).

My understanding is that the waveguide used with the 28 requires less volume and less space than my 112 does to hit its rather broad sweet-spot, but if you happened to be trying it at home at quiet volume, I think it's possible that you could be experiencing a bit of that. I could, of course, be wrong.

You might also try a bit leaner EQ (in lows and/or low mids) than you're used to. None of this is to negate your observations or preferences, but the EQ and a bit of elevation are things I might try. I found that elevating the stack of my MAS 110 sub and Audiokinesis Hathor 1203 (I just used a small, flat-folding stool I got at Target), when the sub is horizontal, brings the sound more into balance for my taste (on the floor there's a bump in the bass and low mids, which can also be nice in some settings). Stacking the cabs vertically or tilting the Hathor back on a wedge have similar, though slightly different, effects.

Good luck, in any case!
-Mark

P.S. If you post your question in the other thread, you might get an answer from Mike, there.

 

[Dee-man]

Thanks Mark. I did try it on a chair and the floor (upright and horizontal). The chair sounded good, but I might want some floor rattling. I do have an amp wedge, so will try that next. I'm just in my living room so far, and didn't get past a low-moderate volume. I can already hear the cab open up at that level, as I recall from prior MAS cabs I had the pleasure of owning. Just wondering if it matters where the baffle is in horizontal position. I'm guessing not, but don't want to damage the cab or disrupt the vortexitude.

 

[MarkA]

Thanks Mark. I did try it on a chair and the floor (upright and horizontal). The chair sounded good, but I might want some floor rattling. I do have an amp wedge, so will try that next. I'm just in my living room so far, and didn't get past a low-moderate volume. I can already hear the cab open up at that level, as I recall from prior MAS cabs I had the pleasure of owning. Just wondering if it matters where the baffle is in horizontal position. I'm guessing not, but don't want to damage the cab or disrupt the vortexitude.

Well, you can always try the cab in a few different orientations for awhile before installing feet to see what you like -- even a thin rubber mat or a throw rug would help to keep it from getting scratched up. If you do elect to install feet, if wonder if something like T-nuts (pretty sure those or something similar are incorporated into my mas 46) would help. Washers or even a think, metal plate (a la a Fender neckplate) might help distribute the load if their protruding into the bell ("port") didn't disrupt the airflow/vortexitude in a bad way.

Might not be necessary, but my urge to make things more durable would have me looking into something like that (t-nuts and/or washers).

 

[coyoteboy]

For rubber feet on additional cab sides, I use these mounted in the outside metal corner screws, replacing the stock wood screw with a slightly longer one. I put them on all my current MAS speaks.

 

[3rdcurve]

Anyone picked up some of the new 10s yet? Kind of curious as to why Mike changed the 10 to mimic the 8, but not the 12. Too bulky maybe? I had a 210 Flex, a pair of 110 Bodais, and a MAS 112. The 112 was the most “bass cab” like. Great rig. Interested in how the original 112 and the new one compare (both using mikes eminence driver). Wonder if there would be any gain goin with a shape like the 8 and new 10.