Big E Speakers Part 4 - Quadraphenia

[31HZ]

What is your 66+112 stack comparable to in conventional cabs?

I just realized that it's a 110 sub, not a 112 sub, so first off I apologize for any confusion.

It's difficult to compare the MAS stuff to other cabs, but I'd put the 66 by itself up against any 2x12 and be fairly certain that it'd likely come out on top for sheer volume -- not to mention be quite certain about its clarity, articulation, and even dispersion, but maybe not quite sound as "thick" as the 212. It's got a Vd of 900cc, which is about what you'd find in a "super" 212.

Adding the sub, though, gives you the "thick" mid-low beef that the 66 doesn't quite have on its own. I usually preferred to play without it, to be honest, but I could see it working well in some situations. Also, the 66 goes lower on its own than the sub goes; maybe lower than anything else I have played through, actually, with a -3db point of around 40hz (per Mike).

Hope that helps, and I'd be happy to try to clarify any of this if necessary.

 

[kesslari]

I'm really looking forward to gigging again so I can take my B28 out into the wild!
My bands petered out over COVID, starting from scratch again....

 

[bassically_eli]

Here's Mike's old info on those cabs:
https://web.archive.org/web/2017041...pid=18&module=shopping_cart&component=catalog
https://web.archive.org/web/2019042...pid=15&module=shopping_cart&component=catalog

Looks like they move a whopping 1500 cc's in total

 

[mgrewe12]

Do I remember right that the 110 sub had a crossover network so you can go amp -> sub -> 66 (or other cab). Low end coming just through the sub then the higher frequencies (crossover point?) through the other cab?

 

[31HZ]

Do I remember right that the 110 sub had a crossover network so you can go amp -> sub -> 66 (or other cab). Low end coming just through the sub then the higher frequencies (crossover point?) through the other cab?

Correct. Some of them, I believe, also had a switch so that you could select either a HP'd signal or a full-frequency signal to your "top" cab from the sub (if you didn't have an amp with two speaker output jacks). Mine doesn't have the switch, but in a previous post Mike made reference to such a switch (as well as a -3db pad):

Big E Speakers pt 3

 

[31HZ]

Here's Mike's old info on those cabs:
https://web.archive.org/web/2017041...pid=18&module=shopping_cart&component=catalog
https://web.archive.org/web/2019042...pid=15&module=shopping_cart&component=catalog

Looks like they move a whopping 1500 cc's in total

That is super helpful, thank you!!

 

[Razman]

I just realized that it's a 110 sub, not a 112 sub, so first off I apologize for any confusion.

It's difficult to compare the MAS stuff to other cabs, but I'd put the 66 by itself up against any 2x12 and be fairly certain that it'd likely come out on top for sheer volume -- not to mention be quite certain about its clarity, articulation, and even dispersion, but maybe not quite sound as "thick" as the 212. It's got a Vd of 900cc, which is about what you'd find in a "super" 212.

Adding the sub, though, gives you the "thick" mid-low beef that the 66 doesn't quite have on its own. I usually preferred to play without it, to be honest, but I could see it working well in some situations. Also, the 66 goes lower on its own than the sub goes; maybe lower than anything else I have played through, actually, with a -3db point of around 40hz (per Mike).

Hope that helps, and I'd be happy to try to clarify any of this if necessary.

Thanks, this helps. I'd like to get into a fridge-replacement solution that sounds fast and hits pretty hard. There, I think that's the TL;DR version.

Long version: I play for a Christian Metal band at my church (we play covers from Disturbed, FFDP, Papa Roach, among others and change the lyrics) and have an unreasonably large stack for our theater. When we practice (in a separate space) I'll use my GK 700rb into my Henry the 8x8. The other day I heard some HF distortion coming from ol' Henry - but I haven't yet determined if it was my amp, the cab, the room, or ?. I appreciate the transient response that GK's RB series amps deliver but I'm also being conscious of Henry's limitations (I can still get it pretty loud though). Hearing that annoyed me, so when I have time I want to play around with some other amps to figure out what is going on.

Anyway... I've had the opportunity to play around with different combinations between it, a Mesa 400, and an Ampeg 810 (Pro series, which are still sealed cabs but deeper - and weigh 220 lbs ). I prefer the Mesa atop the fridge, and the GK with Henry. The Henry rig sounds tighter; the 10's in the fridge sound "woofier" if that makes sense. A little looser, less controlled - even when powered by the GK.

Our first show in a few moons was out in Texas back in February. I brought both stacks. We were indoors, playing to about 150-200 people, in a room with a stage, say about 5k square feet? Bass was not in the PA, and I was mainly in the Mesa/Ampeg stack, but also ran the Henry/GK stack next to it to add a little more oomph (how often do you get asked to turn UP at a show? Not me - so I was more than happy to oblige when the sound man said he wanted more bass ). It was loud and sounded great.

What's my point? It would be nice to have a simpler solution as that was the second time I played with the Mesa on max clean (and it is pretty darn loud in it's own right). I'm curious if the 66 + 110 would get me there. Or if updating all the 8" drivers in Henry to Dayton's ($250-$300) could add some extra volume but still feel "quick".

Or maybe I don't play enough and am just a bored gearhead.

Next month I'm traveling to MN to retrieve a PJB rig I bought remotely and had a buddy pick up and store until I get there. I intend for that to be our sanctuary rig going forward, if I like it. If not, I may flip it and look for a MAS rig. Or look for a MAS rig anyway, if I have any $$$ left after the trip.

So that's my story and I'm sticking to it. If you got this far, thanks for listening.

Eric

 

[31HZ]

I gigged a Henry 8x8 as my only cab for over a decade, and I loved the sound on small- to medium-sized gigs, but it ran out of steam on a really loud stage, and would also do the classic "I'm overworked" volume drop as the gig went on. That cab really needs a HPF in the chain.

That being said -- and not to sound like a shill for MAS -- a MAS66 would utterly crush that 8x8 cab like a grape, and by pretty much any metric one could imagine.

FWIW, Henry is rated for 480w and the 66 is rated for 900w.

 

[bassically_eli]

Thanks, this helps. I'd like to get into a fridge-replacement solution that sounds fast and hits pretty hard. There, I think that's the TL;DR version.

Long version: I play for a Christian Metal band at my church (we play covers from Disturbed, FFDP, Papa Roach, among others and change the lyrics) and have an unreasonably large stack for our theater. When we practice (in a separate space) I'll use my GK 700rb into my Henry the 8x8. The other day I heard some HF distortion coming from ol' Henry - but I haven't yet determined if it was my amp, the cab, the room, or ?. I appreciate the transient response that GK's RB series amps deliver but I'm also being conscious of Henry's limitations (I can still get it pretty loud though). Hearing that annoyed me, so when I have time I want to play around with some other amps to figure out what is going on.

Anyway... I've had the opportunity to play around with different combinations between it, a Mesa 400, and an Ampeg 810 (Pro series, which are still sealed cabs but deeper - and weigh 220 lbs ). I prefer the Mesa atop the fridge, and the GK with Henry. The Henry rig sounds tighter; the 10's in the fridge sound "woofier" if that makes sense. A little looser, less controlled - even when powered by the GK.

Our first show in a few moons was out in Texas back in February. I brought both stacks. We were indoors, playing to about 150-200 people, in a room with a stage, say about 5k square feet? Bass was not in the PA, and I was mainly in the Mesa/Ampeg stack, but also ran the Henry/GK stack next to it to add a little more oomph (how often do you get asked to turn UP at a show? Not me - so I was more than happy to oblige when the sound man said he wanted more bass ). It was loud and sounded great.

What's my point? It would be nice to have a simpler solution as that was the second time I played with the Mesa on max clean (and it is pretty darn loud in it's own right). I'm curious if the 66 + 110 would get me there. Or if updating all the 8" drivers in Henry to Dayton's ($250-$300) could add some extra volume but still feel "quick".

Or maybe I don't play enough and am just a bored gearhead.

Next month I'm traveling to MN to retrieve a PJB rig I bought remotely and had a buddy pick up and store until I get there. I intend for that to be our sanctuary rig going forward, if I like it. If not, I may flip it and look for a MAS rig. Or look for a MAS rig anyway, if I have any $$$ left after the trip.

So that's my story and I'm sticking to it. If you got this far, thanks for listening.

Eric

You probably already know from this thread or elsewhere, but just in case, the MAS speakers are much more akin to a PA system then an Ampeg 810 tonally. (The one exception, possibly, that I can thank of is the MAS112, which Mike designed as an all out bass guitar speaker, IIRC. Not sure how that one compares to playing through a PA, but probably still totally different than Ampeg 810.) I don't think I've ever heard a Henry before, so I can't really compare to that. Personally, if I were going for a very hi-fi tone or multipurpose cab (I play mostly upright, but some electric, so I need both those things) I'd probably look for something simpler and/or cheaper. Actually, I'd probably want an Audiokinesis Hathor or Changeling, or maybe a used MAS112 like I just mentioned.

I know that some people have had good luck swapping the speakers in the Henry, and those Dayton speakers are supposed to be great for the price, but they're heavy. Personally, I would probably put that money towards a new cab. Speakers have gotten so much better over the years, and cab design has evolved to accommodate that. There are so many good options out there, especially if you care about size/weight.

 

[31HZ]

Got to talk to Mike last night, and I thought it would be a quick chat but 30 minutes went by in the blink of an eye -- I could have kept asking questions and gushing my admiration for his products, but I figured it better to let him get off the phone! Anyway, it's clear that he's enormously passionate about his products, and it was good to hear that MAS is going to continue to produce cabinets. Nothing else works as well for me, and I'm looking forward to seeing what comes next.

 

[spiritbass]

It's a whole lot of fun 'talking bass' with Mike. It's been a while for me...

 

[kesslari]

I've got a rehearsal tonight. Going to bring the 1,8 because it's so easy.
Kinda want to bring the B28 just to open it up a bit... Maybe I will.

 

[mntngrown]

I'm really looking forward to gigging again so I can take my B28 out into the wild!
My bands petered out over COVID, starting from scratch again....

Damn man I hope you get back in the mix soon as your county is opening up gigs. I keep in touch with my old band buddies there even though I bailed for the Sierra life style. They are playing out again. You are way too talented to be fallow.

 

[funkometer]

Are there any pics of Mike's newer 2 way 2 5's or 2'6 out there?

 

[mntngrown]

Correct. Some of them, I believe, also had a switch so that you could select either a HP'd signal or a full-frequency signal to your "top" cab from the sub (if you didn't have an amp with two speaker output jacks). Mine doesn't have the switch, but in a previous post Mike made reference to such a switch (as well as a -3db pad):

Big E Speakers pt 3

I have a 110 sub and an older 66, no hpass switch etc. I use 2 0hm capable Mesa 800 head. Do you hear any difference using a separate speaker out to each cab vs daisy chain? Thanks

 

[MarkA]

I have a 110 sub and an older 66, no hpass switch etc. I use 2 0hm capable Mesa 800 head. Do you hear any difference using a separate speaker out to each cab vs daisy chain? Thanks

When I had a 110 sub (I think you've got mine!) and MAS 46, I recall there being a difference between running to the 46 and daisy-chaining to the sub vs. running to the sub first and daisy-chaining to the 46. I'm not sure of the exact cause of that or what additional circuitry there might or might not be in the sub, but I want to say that 46-->sub sounded thicker (I'm sure I posted about it somewhere in one of these threads).

I believe that the default configuration of that sub had a gradual LPF on the 3010LF Kappalite speaker in there. I don't know if daisy-chaining the top cab off the sub high-passed that cab or not (and don't know if that was dependent on which of the sub's speaker jacks you plugged into).

I don't recall, specifically, what running one cab off each amp output was like, but that should run the two cabs in parallel (which is what happens when you daisy-chain most cabs together -- most are wired to put the other cab in parallel -- but, again, I'm not sure exactly what's going on with the sub).

At any rate, I'd say it's one of those "plug it in a bunch of different ways and see what you get" things. I recall there being a difference with the two configurations I mentioned above (and want to say that @tombowlus related a similar experience, awhile back).

 

[mntngrown]

Thanks MarkA you are great resource for these cabs in the wild. For convenience sake last year I was taking the Mas 28 on top of the sub I bought from you for rehearsal and new band set list work, but I also brought the 66 a time or two with the sub. If there is a filter in the sub I guess either way will get it done. My ear is not as discerning as some younger folks, especially if we are playing Moby Dick or Manic Depression. LOL

 

[31HZ]

There is definitely a LPF in the sub that is always in the circuit -- it can't be used full-range. And it's been a while since I used the sub, but I think that it's "thicker" when running two separate amp outputs since you aren't utilizing the cab crossover circuitry that comes into play when the top cab gets the sub output feed.

 

[mntngrown]

There is definitely a LPF in the sub that is always in the circuit -- it can't be used full-range. And it's been a while since I used the sub, but I think that it's "thicker" when running two separate amp outputs since you aren't utilizing the cab crossover circuitry that comes into play when the top cab gets the sub output feed.

Thanks!

 

[kesslari]

Photo from the July 12 recording date. MAS 1,8. Zon fretless. Mesa WD-800 head. Sonic bliss.