Big E Speakers Part 4 - Quadraphenia

[mgrewe12]

MarkA. I also live facing a few hundred acres of woods (not my own, just mostly vacant land) so next nice Wisconsin day I plan on taking it outside, letting 'er rip, walking around the cabin, etc. I'll report back on how many deer and bunnies are left.

Your point about no "I'm getting loud" cues are spot on; no distortion or compression all the way to the top, just gets louder. It just didn't hurt my ear drums (at least with bass), which is weird because I am usually on the sensitive side to loud noises. Playing music through it however, I noticed it got painfully loud, and quick.

I don't actually know the "specs" on the cab. I was under the impression when I chatted with Mike on the phone (which is the most enjoyable way to interact with him, next to being in person) was that the 46.5 and his 1200 are a good match. I had the volume on the 1200 dimed with my Noble Preamp just a smidge higher than unity, gain structure seemed about right, but I'll check in with Mike to see if he has recommendations based on his experiences with his stuff.

 

[mgrewe12]

I got outside yesterday for some testing before the snowstorm hit. It definitely opens up outside, how much is hard to tell still out of context with a band and without another bass rig to compare to. Playing recorded music: I walked around the cabin and was pleased with how much detail was still available. The overall volume dropped off more than the upper frequencies declined (hard sentence to figure out how to word). Not a great test report, but I'll update the group when I gig again...

 

[edwinhurwitz]

Do other folks have similar experiences where it doesn't seem that loud in a small room, but still fills a stage? I am back making music after life forced a few year hiatus, so my gig volume vs. home volume metric is a bit off...

Not quite the same experience, but I remember the first time I saw the Grateful Dead in May of 1976. It was their first tour after they retired the Wall of Sound, but they were still devoted to very low distortion sound. I was thinking to myself, wow, this just doesn't seem very loud at all. Then, between songs, one of the drummers was adjusting his hi hat and I realized it was crazy loud, but it was so crazy clean sounding that it just didn't seem loud.

Often we judge our sense of loudness by distortion, especially if we are used to bass sounds like SVTs or other tube amps driven to the edge. Often, especially back in the day before modern systems became the rule, PA companies will spec a system and then run it to within an inch of its life. It sounds loud, but it's actually just distorted. The way the GD ran their systems was with a huge amount of headroom and they also minimized intermodulation distortion (the spring '76 tour had a separate PA for the vocals and the instruments), so they would typically have twice the amount of power of most PAs but then run them very conservatively. It was still very loud, but it just doesn't seem that way. I think the MAS/Big E speakers are a perfect example of this kind of thinking. I've never heard my 210 Flex ever distort. It's also the only bass cab I've ever had that I haven't been able to blow up.

 

[spiritbass]

Not quite the same experience, but I remember the first time I saw the Grateful Dead in May of 1976. It was their first tour after they retired the Wall of Sound, but they were still devoted to very low distortion sound. I was thinking to myself, wow, this just doesn't seem very loud at all. Then, between songs, one of the drummers was adjusting his hi hat and I realized it was crazy loud, but it was so crazy clean sounding that it just didn't seem loud.

Often we judge our sense of loudness by distortion, especially if we are used to bass sounds like SVTs or other tube amps driven to the edge. Often, especially back in the day before modern systems became the rule, PA companies will spec a system and then run it to within an inch of its life. It sounds loud, but it's actually just distorted. The way the GD ran their systems was with a huge amount of headroom and they also minimized intermodulation distortion (the spring '76 tour had a separate PA for the vocals and the instruments), so they would typically have twice the amount of power of most PAs but then run them very conservatively. It was still very loud, but it just doesn't seem that way. I think the MAS/Big E speakers are a perfect example of this kind of thinking. I've never heard my 210 Flex ever distort. It's also the only bass cab I've ever had that I haven't been able to blow up.

I used to run two 110 Flex cabs stacked. I was never brave or foolish enough to push it to the limit or into distortion - too high of a SPL for me. You're completely correct in that they're so clean, you can misjudge their loudness...

 

[mntngrown]

Yep I can't wait to get back in the mix with the local players as we all should be vaccinated before summer, which is the only gig opportunities here in the snow country anyway. I still have the arsenal of MAS cabs and gotta ramp up my practice before we get back in the rehearsal space.

 

[mntngrown]

I got outside yesterday for some testing before the snowstorm hit. It definitely opens up outside, how much is hard to tell still out of context with a band and without another bass rig to compare to. Playing recorded music: I walked around the cabin and was pleased with how much detail was still available. The overall volume dropped off more than the upper frequencies declined (hard sentence to figure out how to word). Not a great test report, but I'll update the group when I gig again...

Yes sir. Way back in the posts of my early experience as an early adopter with the original 48, I told my experience with a block party where the host had unbeknownst to us booked a second band. We allowed them to use our PA and I allowed the bass player to plug his Stingray into my FDeck and SVT 7pro then into the 48. I grabbed a beer then walked away to hear the mix. After a suburban Santa Cruz block plus I could hear the bass loud and clear as if I was right in the front row. And they were abusing the PA volume which caused the neighbors to call the PD who told the permitted host to to shut down LOL MAS cabs carry outdoors IMHO

 

[Razman]

Is Mike still around or is he gone from TB for good? I think it's the latter, but it's been a while since I've checked into this thread. I have his # so I may just call or text him.

Anyway, I'm planning a trip up from FL to MN, and there is a remote chance I could pass through Chicago for a visit. Always been curious about the cabs but have never seen one in real life, and it would be neat to meet Mike after having spoken to him in the past.

Peace...

Raz

 

[kesslari]

@Razman Call him or FB.

 

[whirledpeas]

Is Mike still around or is he gone from TB for good? I think it's the latter, but it's been a while since I've checked into this thread. I have his # so I may just call or text him.

Anyway, I'm planning a trip up from FL to MN, and there is a remote chance I could pass through Chicago for a visit. Always been curious about the cabs but have never seen one in real life, and it would be neat to meet Mike after having spoken to him in the past.

Peace...

Raz

Just last week I was wondering what Mike had been up to and found some fairly recent posts on his FB page. FYI- sounded like he may be relocating to Richmond, VA soon (or has already? Not sure). Also his new 4x6.5 tower sure looks interesting.

 

[Razman]

Just last week I was wondering what Mike had been up to and found some fairly recent posts on his FB page. FYI- sounded like he may be relocating to Richmond, VA soon (or has already? Not sure). Also his new 4x6.5 tower sure looks interesting.

I may just call when I drive out. Don't use FB. But getting my wife to be complicit in making a stop for anything bass-related will be not much short of a miracle. I'll have to make it worth her while (like go shopping, have dinner or something).

 

[mgrewe12]

Just last week I was wondering what Mike had been up to and found some fairly recent posts on his FB page. FYI- sounded like he may be relocating to Richmond, VA soon (or has already? Not sure). Also his new 4x6.5 tower sure looks interesting.

I have Mike's new 4x6.5 box (crossfiring, not the tower). Mike told me for a practical gigging cab, the crossfiring speakers will add a couple db with a slight loss of clarity. However, kicking behind a band, that loss of clarity is a non-issue. Tower was better for more solo type gigs, per Mike.

I've gigged it twice now in a horribly boomy room where bass is normally a hyper directional woof machine. With Mike's cab, my musician friend with hearing aids (one of which wasn't even working that day), who was sitting in the dead zone for bass, said he could hear me clearly and it was not overpowering the mix at all. Best review I could ask for! I also have his power amp; the set up is definitely more of a PA thing than stereotypical "bass amp", but I've only had compliments. I've found that folks rarely go out of their way to compliment the bass sound, but bandmates were raving about how clear and supportive it is. I can't imagine needing more "clarity" that the tower could provide.

I know Mike is doing a ton of work to prep the house and move (if he hasn't already), so don't expect a prompt answer. Otherwise he is great to call and chat with. A 10 minute conversation easily turned to 60 as we talked history of cab design, quirks, home building, whatever.

 

[radbass]

I just got one of Mike’s 4x5 towers. I’ve currently got a 2x8 Bodai and have had many MAS cabs and many, many other cabs in my 55 years of playing. I’ve also, thanks to friends, had the opportunity to try most of the current high end cabs available. The 4x5 is the best sounding bass cabinet I have ever played through. The clarity, and weight to the notes is incomparable. It almost feels like it anticipated the note. This thing just pounds on you, which makes my drummer happy. I was just using an antique closed cab because it looks cool and I had to stop and angle the cab towards him in order for him to hear it. The 4x5 could face away from him and he was still happy. This characteristic is common to any of my MAS cabs, but the sound is even more amazing. This isn’t the loudest cab, but it keeps up with a non Bonham drummer. A powerful, but sweet sound.

 

[31HZ]

I just got one of Mike’s 4x5 towers. I’ve currently got a 2x8 Bodai and have had many MAS cabs and many, many other cabs in my 55 years of playing. I’ve also, thanks to friends, had the opportunity to try most of the current high end cabs available. The 4x5 is the best sounding bass cabinet I have ever played through. The clarity, and weight to the notes is incomparable. It almost feels like it anticipated the note. This thing just pounds on you, which makes my drummer happy. I was just using an antique closed cab because it looks cool and I had to stop and angle the cab towards him in order for him to hear it. The 4x5 could face away from him and he was still happy. This characteristic is common to any of my MAS cabs, but the sound is even more amazing. This isn’t the loudest cab, but it keeps up with a non Bonham drummer. A powerful, but sweet sound.

I was afraid someone was going to say that.

I have two great Rigs of Doom (a MAS66/10Sub combo and a pair of Bodai112s) but I'm always curious to try any new cab of Mike's. Hope he's doing well with his move, btw.

 

[J.Wolf]

I was afraid someone was going to say that.

I have two great Rigs of Doom (a MAS66/10Sub combo and a pair of Bodai112s) but I'm always curious to try any new cab of Mike's. Hope he's doing well with his move, btw.

Wow those are great MAS rigs! What amps are you using with them ?

 

[bassically_eli]

I just got one of Mike’s 4x5 towers. I’ve currently got a 2x8 Bodai and have had many MAS cabs and many, many other cabs in my 55 years of playing. I’ve also, thanks to friends, had the opportunity to try most of the current high end cabs available. The 4x5 is the best sounding bass cabinet I have ever played through. The clarity, and weight to the notes is incomparable. It almost feels like it anticipated the note. This thing just pounds on you, which makes my drummer happy. I was just using an antique closed cab because it looks cool and I had to stop and angle the cab towards him in order for him to hear it. The 4x5 could face away from him and he was still happy. This characteristic is common to any of my MAS cabs, but the sound is even more amazing. This isn’t the loudest cab, but it keeps up with a non Bonham drummer. A powerful, but sweet sound.

What might you compare the 4x5 to as far as max volume and low end, or maybe I should say SPL and volume of air moved to be more technical (e.g., 4x10, 1x12, etc.)? How much does it weigh?

 

[radbass]

Wow those are great MAS rigs! What amps are you using with them ?

I’m using an amp I made with an Arkham bullet and a Warwick LWA 1000 I’ve modified to do 1200 watts.

 

[radbass]

What might you compare the 4x5 to as far as max volume and low end, or maybe I should say SPL and volume of air moved to be more technical (e.g., 4x10, 1x12, etc.)? How much does it weigh?

It seems to have more volume than a good 1x12, but less than a good 2x12, but it goes much deeper than either. I play 4 strings and I’ve never heard a low E or even notes on the G string with that much weight. Probably between a 2x10 and a 4x10. It weighs about 35 lbs.

 

[31HZ]

Wow those are great MAS rigs! What amps are you using with them ?

Monique 700, Arkham Beast, Reiner VHF, Puma900, or Eden WT800 -- I'm hoping to pare that pile down as I play out more and see what works best. I haven't yet gigged the pair of 112s, and I need to figure out how best to run that 2-ohm load (my instinct tells me that the load is probably close to the 2.7ohm capability of a few of these amps; I seem to recall Mike mentioning that his impedance ratings are conservative).

 

[edwinhurwitz]

I finally had a gig with my MAS 210 Flex. I discovered that the bottom woofer was behaving as expected but the top woofer's motion seemed very subdued, as if it were being pushed by the bottom woofer rather than being driven by its voice coil. So, I will open it up (hoping that a wire has come loose), but does anyone know where I could get it reconed, if it needs it? Or should I just try to find a replacement? I understand that Eminence has replaced it with the KL3010LF, which is nearly identical in specs, but seems to have a different frame, so I'm not sure if it would fit the cabinet properly.

Ideas?

It still sounds amazing with a decent amount of oomph.

 

[MarkA]

Monique 700, Arkham Beast, Reiner VHF, Puma900, or Eden WT800 -- I'm hoping to pare that pile down as I play out more and see what works best. I haven't yet gigged the pair of 112s, and I need to figure out how best to run that 2-ohm load (my instinct tells me that the load is probably close to the 2.7ohm capability of a few of these amps; I seem to recall Mike mentioning that his impedance ratings are conservative).

I could be wrong, but I think this (whether a cab is a "high" or "low" 4 Ohms) varies, within Mike's line, with the specific cab and woofer. It would be best to check with Mike if this is something you're wondering about.

I finally had a gig with my MAS 210 Flex. I discovered that the bottom woofer was behaving as expected but the top woofer's motion seemed very subdued, as if it were being pushed by the bottom woofer rather than being driven by its voice coil. So, I will open it up (hoping that a wire has come loose), but does anyone know where I could get it reconed, if it needs it? Or should I just try to find a replacement? I understand that Eminence has replaced it with the KL3010LF, which is nearly identical in specs, but seems to have a different frame, so I'm not sure if it would fit the cabinet properly.

Ideas?

It still sounds amazing with a decent amount of oomph.

I could (again) be wrong, but I thought that the woofers in the 210 Flex were stock Kappalite 3010LFs -- your noticing a different frame would seem to imply different, though. Unless someone has more specific and certain knowledge than I do, this would seem worth inquiring with Mike about, too.