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Big E Speakers Part 4 - Quadraphenia
- Thread starter kesslari
- Start date
even though the 112 weighs about 10# more, I think it's an easier schlep. It is a bigger cab, though
Just when this thread was getting tame.
That 2x 46 plan must be killer Mr. Boss. I love my one for small gigs.
That 2x 46 plan must be killer Mr. Boss. I love my one for small gigs.
That is an awesome rig right there!
Congratulations!
I've been jones'in for one of the Lab.gruppen IPD amps since I first heard about them.
The IPD2400 is a one rackspace amp as well!
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Until yesterday, I hadn't bought a brand-new cab or amp since my first: the Gorilla combo that helped start me on my electric bass journey in 1990. I still have my first bass and my first amp -- how many of you guys can say that? (I confess that the amp doesn't get much play anymore, but the bass is still my main squeeze.) Yesterday, I ordered a MAS 112 -- full grill, all black, by the way. I'm not a tweeter guy, but I'm getting the tweeter with this one. In part, it's a "just in case" thing, as Jake said, and, who knows, I might actually like it in certain situations and/or certain rooms. It's on a switch if I don't.
Two interesting features on mine, which Mike and I discussed:
I believe that you need not only to play a rig, but to play it on your own turf and out in different situations to really get to know it. I was impressed with the 112 when I tried it (and I tried it next to my old standby 2x12), but I don't feel I really know it. I am excited to play it, though! I don't think it will be "a better version of my 2x12" -- though I've thought of it in those terms before. It will be its own cab (for one thing, the midrange character is different, though the mids are similarly present in both cabs, for another, there's the whole vortex thing), but, I think, keep much of what I like about my 212 while improving upon it significantly in several areas. I think it will do more than that, actually, but I'll wait to say more until I've had some quality time with it. Still, I anticipate good things.
Mike has been great to deal with -- we've been talking off and on for years, and I'm finally buying a cab from him. There was never any pressure. I just have a good feeling about this.
Misc. note: I used to have a Markbass SD800. I let it go in a regrettable trade, but I remember liking it -- quick and hard hitting, but warmer and deeper than my F500 -- at least that's how I remember it. Just saw one for cheap on here, so I picked it up. I think it will be a good match, power-wise, for the 112. I'm excited by what JGR's doing with his amp, but it will be some time before I have the dough for something in that league (though the BoT is tempting and more readily attainable), so, for the meanwhile...
When the cab gets here, I'll try it with what I've got amp-wise and see how everything stacks up.
Two interesting features on mine, which Mike and I discussed:
- An additional switch that takes everything except the 12" speaker out of the circuit and lets it run full-range. I got this idea from two places: First, my younger brother, who's told me that my education isn't complete until I spend some time playing an old-school cab with a single speaker in a (I'd guess sealed) box. I don't think I'd be happy limiting myself all the time to a 2-3KHz top end, but I do think that some of the old school Motown sounds and lines were pretty killer (and surely one influences the other -- I play differently with my fretless P-bass than with my fretted reverse-P/J). Not long after that, I read on the Big E forum about a "MAS 112 Essential," which is the 112 sans crossover, mids, and tweet. Mike had posted that the 18 Sound 12" had a response that reminded him of I-forget-which venerable old driver (or maybe it was another user who mentioned a specific driver), and that he thought it would make a good old-school cab for those into that thing. It wasn't a far leap from that to ask if a switch could be installed that would give me both cabs in one. I figured letting the speaker roll-off naturally would sound and feel different than trying to do the same thing with the tone knob and amp EQ with the other drivers and crossover in there. Mike agreed. Since we're just looking at a switch and maybe a bit of wire, impact on tone should be nil or close to it. I admit, I feel kinda smart about this -- it's not the uber-switching of the Flex, but it's another viable configuration for the price of a nice set of strings.
- A Baltic Birch back panel. When I played the 112 at Mike's place, it was quick, tight, punchy, and even from top to bottom, so, naturally, I had a bunch of questions about how it might be improved (or just changed -- I don't know that all my ideas would yield improvements). My 2nd generation 66 is made of okume, which is supposed to improve the midrange response of that cab. Since the Big E cabs use no batting inside and are supposed, in many respects, to act like acoustic instruments, it makes sense that different woods would change the response (though I don't know to what degree). I asked Mike about using okume or Baltic birch. The cab being as heavily braced as it is by its many internal panels, Mike thought it dubious that building the cab from heavier woods would result in much benefit, particularly when taking into account the weight penalty. He had, though, contemplated the possible effect of a stiffer back panel in this particular design. So, we're trying it in mine -- just the back panel, everything else the same. I'd elaborate further, but I think Mike will do a better job here, so I'll leave it to him.
I believe that you need not only to play a rig, but to play it on your own turf and out in different situations to really get to know it. I was impressed with the 112 when I tried it (and I tried it next to my old standby 2x12), but I don't feel I really know it. I am excited to play it, though! I don't think it will be "a better version of my 2x12" -- though I've thought of it in those terms before. It will be its own cab (for one thing, the midrange character is different, though the mids are similarly present in both cabs, for another, there's the whole vortex thing), but, I think, keep much of what I like about my 212 while improving upon it significantly in several areas. I think it will do more than that, actually, but I'll wait to say more until I've had some quality time with it. Still, I anticipate good things.
Mike has been great to deal with -- we've been talking off and on for years, and I'm finally buying a cab from him. There was never any pressure. I just have a good feeling about this.
Misc. note: I used to have a Markbass SD800. I let it go in a regrettable trade, but I remember liking it -- quick and hard hitting, but warmer and deeper than my F500 -- at least that's how I remember it. Just saw one for cheap on here, so I picked it up. I think it will be a good match, power-wise, for the 112. I'm excited by what JGR's doing with his amp, but it will be some time before I have the dough for something in that league (though the BoT is tempting and more readily attainable), so, for the meanwhile...
When the cab gets here, I'll try it with what I've got amp-wise and see how everything stacks up.
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I love this little thing for my Sunday jazz brunch gigs. Great for upright and kills with electric too. I can finally hear all my notes with definition with this rig.
Wondering about swapping out the sub in the 45/110S and making it a 45/112S. Got some questions asked over at the happy forum 
Wondering about swapping out the sub in the 45/110S and making it a 45/112S. Got some questions asked over at the happy forum
I thought about something like that, if by 45/112S you mean setting the 45 atop a woofer-only 112 (or my 112 with everything but the woof switched out) and putting an appropriately-voiced crossover somewhere in between. Might still, at some future point, but will just concentrate on the 112 for now.
On another note, I just got off the phone with Mike. After talking it over a bit, we decided to go with an okume back panel instead of one made of Baltic birch. Mike, would you mind clarifying the reasons why for the folks at home?
I'm still going with the three switches: hot/neutral mids, tweeter on/off, "Hook" switch -- for when I wanna play (or do my best to play) like Jamerson (take everything but the woofer out of the circuit and let it run full range).
That sounds like a sweet little setup right there. Maybe Mike could offer that as the "Mark A. Switch Package".
Not sure I get this. That particular 12, IF I remember it correctly, goes nowhere near as high as older 12's back in the day. And if I'm correct therefor, will not come even close to emulating those classic tones by itself... No? ... Not to mention the fact that it is Neo, which has a cleaner magnetic field - pattern/characteristic to its sound.
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Are you trying to rain on my parade of irrational exuberance with logic?
I'm the farthest thing there is from an expert on old loudspeakers and where they roll(ed) off. I've only heard a few and, half the time, didn't even know what they were. As for neo vs. ceramic, I know what the stereotypes are and have played cabs that did a good job of reinforcing those, but couldn't tell you the first thing about their magnetic patterns or the effect of those patterns on the sound. Not making a very good argument for myself as a reliable source, am I?
On the Big E forum, Mike mentioned that the 18Sound (not the Eminence) rolled off around 2.5 KHz, with info up to around 3 KHz. Someone mentioned the "venerable JBL K140" (which I've heard of but couldn't tell you anything about) rolling off in the same area. And there is an "MA Essential" version of the cab with just the 18 Sound. I don't know what that cab sounds like, having never heard one, but Mike and the Big E dudes think it full-range enough to offer it as a stand-alone cab. Would I get such a cab without trying it -- or at least doing a lot more research? No. Would I "buy a MAS 112 [which I have researched] and a switch and we'll [effectually] throw in an MA 112 Essential absolutely free!" Yep. So, saying that it would be well-suited to pulling off the classic Motown sounds based on a hunch and a few comments on internet forums would be premature of me. I'd have to play the thing and/or do more research. That said, I have played some 15"s in non-descript boxes that couldn't have gone much higher than a few KHz and I have the feeling that the 12" 18 Sound will be a viable standalone. I hope that it will help me channel some Jamerson vibe, but I can't say for sure. The cab itself is certainly different from anything JJ would've played.
To be clear, this was my idea. Mike said that a) he'd do it and b) yes, running the 12" solo would be different than simply rolling off treble at the amp/tone knobs at the bass. I think the logic for doing it is sound and I'm cautiously optimistic about the result, but maybe I was a bit silly to call it a "Jamerson switch." (And, no, I don't think any cab is going to make me sound like JJ.)
Anyway, if it rocks and everybody wants it, I'm all (per Don Sibley) for naming it after me. If not, I'm all for naming it after somebody else.
Good points!
More 109 fun:
Had the 109 out on 2 gigs and a private party now. I wish I was as good as the regulars here in describing sound, but to me it's got this warm but very full and fast bass response that is incredibly fun to play, It makes you FUNKY. Unlike any of my conventional cabs, or anything other I've tried. Really intriguing the more I get it out, especially with the JC Epiphone which is an extremely dynamic bass.
The last gig was: Shotgun shack blues club, 80ft long, small to medium size. Medium level blues band, but not rock blues level. Trio and harp through 4x10 bassman. I was up in a corner on a decent hollow stage maybe 2 ft high. A few notes went up in volume from most likely stage resonance or corner build up at my ears playing... however, another bass player sat in and I got to hear the house mix. I asked the guitar player in my main band about the bass response when I got off. He said very even volume and great tone. As I heard the house mix, I can't believe this bigger, but still compact 1x10 rig was have NO problem at all filling this club and backing this band! Crazy... Nice even note projection in the house.
Mike, this thing is freaking a few people out here on the left coast.
Boy, the 112 saga is now really fun to watch, can only imaging the hugeness forth coming from it... cheers
Had the 109 out on 2 gigs and a private party now. I wish I was as good as the regulars here in describing sound, but to me it's got this warm but very full and fast bass response that is incredibly fun to play, It makes you FUNKY. Unlike any of my conventional cabs, or anything other I've tried. Really intriguing the more I get it out, especially with the JC Epiphone which is an extremely dynamic bass.
The last gig was: Shotgun shack blues club, 80ft long, small to medium size. Medium level blues band, but not rock blues level. Trio and harp through 4x10 bassman. I was up in a corner on a decent hollow stage maybe 2 ft high. A few notes went up in volume from most likely stage resonance or corner build up at my ears playing... however, another bass player sat in and I got to hear the house mix. I asked the guitar player in my main band about the bass response when I got off. He said very even volume and great tone. As I heard the house mix, I can't believe this bigger, but still compact 1x10 rig was have NO problem at all filling this club and backing this band! Crazy... Nice even note projection in the house.
Mike, this thing is freaking a few people out here on the left coast.
Boy, the 112 saga is now really fun to watch, can only imaging the hugeness forth coming from it... cheers
