I guess that is the problem. But I hear so many people rag on White simply because he's not Bruford. Yet, he is, in my mind, one of the great drummers of rock.
And yeah, I also think his hard hitting style is reminiscent of Bohnam.
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Bill Bruford / Alan White
- Thread starter Sonicfrog
- Start date
I guess that is the problem. But I hear so many people rag on White simply because he's not Bruford. Yet, he is, in my mind, one of the great drummers of rock.
And yeah, I also think his hard hitting style is reminiscent of Bohnam.
- Mar 8, 2011
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That is such a killer team...I love Wetton's brutal, muscle bound approach sitting next to Brufords more technical thing...At his best, Bruford sounds more like 4 people than 4 limbs...amazing independence... The First UK record and King Crimson's Red record are Wettons finest work, IMO...sorry for the brief derail!
As the one who apparently (and unwittingly) provoked this line of discussion & debate, allow me to weigh in:
First of all, I've been a huge Yes fan since 1974. I've heard ALL the albums, many, many times. Have seen Yes play live probably eight times (all with Alan White on drums). And I've also met Alan White in person, and I agree wholeheartedly: He's a very friendly, unpretentious, down-to-earth human being - who also happens to be a very good drummer (I have no idea where the "Alan White sucks" rubbish comes from).
That said, he's still no Bill Bruford - because nobody but BB is a Bill Bruford. Among his many other attributes, Bruford is that rare musician who is able to bring an extremely well-developed technical capability - not to mention a deep wellspring of innovation and creativity - fully and completely into service of the music. As a result, early Yes was a much better band than it could ever have been without Bruford. He was "instrumental" (pardon the pun) in putting Yes on the map. And when he left the band, Yes was forced to simplify its style somewhat in order to accommodate Alan White. Because Alan White is "inferior" to Bill Bruford, only in the same way that nearly all other drummers are "inferior" to him.
I for one am not saying that - or anything like that. Not at all.
Exactly right. In fact, for those who say that Alan White is a better fit for modern day Yes, I would suggest that Yes probably had to change its style somewhat - in order to adapt to Alan's more conventional rock style of drumming, just as it had to change its style a whole lot more later on, in order to adapt to Trevor Rabin's more straightforward, hard rock style of guitar playing. (By the same token, Trevor Rabin is an excellent rock guitarist. But he's no Steve Howe.)
Under these circumstances, OF COURSE Alan is a better fit for contemporary Yes - because Alan himself greatly influenced the change in style that made himself a better fit for it!
MM
Not to knock Alan in any way, he's an excellent drummer, but I don't think he can do what Bruford did. He tends to 'round up' or simplify a lot of Bruford's drum patterns live. Check out the intro to Close To The Edge or Long Distance Runaround, White plays them as nearly straight 6/8 or 4/4, whereas Bruford's originals were full of syncopation and character. Far more interesting.
But then, this is just White's interpretation of the parts. Maybe they were simplified as Yes began to fill larger arenas - Chris Squire once said when Bruford left they deliberately set out to find a 'heavier' drummer as Bruford's light jazzy touch tended to get a bit lost in the larger halls.
But then, this is just White's interpretation of the parts. Maybe they were simplified as Yes began to fill larger arenas - Chris Squire once said when Bruford left they deliberately set out to find a 'heavier' drummer as Bruford's light jazzy touch tended to get a bit lost in the larger halls.
Greetings from the North,
All the drummers mentioned are very good. Bruford has that special mojo that was an amazing fit for YES. I've been a fan since I first saw them in 1970 and saw every North American tour up until White joined. White is a good drummer but I prefer that certain something of Bruford. He was so creative and was so beyond the standard meat and potatoes. And at that time, that to me, was what yes was all about.
Rezdog
All the drummers mentioned are very good. Bruford has that special mojo that was an amazing fit for YES. I've been a fan since I first saw them in 1970 and saw every North American tour up until White joined. White is a good drummer but I prefer that certain something of Bruford. He was so creative and was so beyond the standard meat and potatoes. And at that time, that to me, was what yes was all about.
Rezdog
All I'll say is that after Bill Bruford left, Yes never made another album I liked.
That doesn't make me dislike Alan White at all.
That doesn't make me dislike Alan White at all.
^^^This
The thing that separates Bruford from White isn't chops...not by a long shot. It's creativity, inventiveness, the ability to not just propel a stage full of musicians but to provoke them as well.
Alan White could probably execute anything that was asked of him. But his track record for coming up with original parts that are uniquely imaginative is far far shorter than Bill Bruford's.
Anyone hear the recent Levin Torn White album? It's a very loose collection of skeletal "tunes" heavily based around improvisation and seat-of-the-pants reaction to new material...iow, the sort of session that a jazz drummer -- or Bill Bruford -- would excel at. White's playing on that record is perfectly perfunctory
...but only just that.
Bruford, White, and Collins are all exceptional drummers. All have played on many, many memorable recordings. Both Bruford and Collins have an unmistakeable tone & style. Alan White did play the drums on Imagine, so he may be the drummer heard by more people than any of the others mentioned.
Like them both, one big difference, Bruford is retired, Alan is still kicking ass.
In case you hadn't heard:
LEVIN TORN WHITE
This is a very sick and enjoyable recording, and as a bonus includes our bass hero Tony Levin, and outer range guitarist David Torn.
Interestingly also played in the group Bruford Levin Upper Extremeties, with Torn. Coincidence? I think not.
In case you hadn't heard:
LEVIN TORN WHITE
This is a very sick and enjoyable recording, and as a bonus includes our bass hero Tony Levin, and outer range guitarist David Torn.
Interestingly also played in the group Bruford Levin Upper Extremeties, with Torn. Coincidence? I think not.I think it's a mistake to automatically assume/decide that the guy who is flashier or who plays more technically is the better drummer. And as for Alan "rounding up" Bill's parts: we don't really know how Bill would have played say, CTTE with Yes on all those ensuing Yes tours, but we do know that he rounded up his own parts quite heavily on the ABWH tour. But since he's the "better" drummer, we'd be less likely to accuse him of "rounding up" the parts but rather "streamlining them" for the big stage, or whatever.... And what exactly would be in it for Alan to play Bill's parts note for note? Just to impress people? Would it have been wiser to to that or do what he did do: which was play the parts with respect to their original integrity but in his own style and with a more powerful (as in force/volume) in a live setting at increasingly large venues? ... Arguable question, of course, but I think Alan made all the right choices and happen to think (IMHO) Close To The Edge on Yessongs, with Alan on drums, is vastly superior to the studio version for oh so many reasons.
Caveat: I am not that schooled on Alan White's daze with Yes...
That said, I prefer Bruford...more polyrhythmic. More like Colaiuta than White in that regard. I mean, "Five Per Cent for Nothing"...how sick is that?!
I do recall Yes not sounding "right" after Bruford left (or was it just the sound of Bruford's snare?).
Again, my experience with Yes at that time (a 14-16 year old) were The Yes Album, Fragile, & Close To The Edge.
In any event, White is certainly a very capable player/musician in his own right.
I am of this same thought/opinion. Can't knock either though.
Interesting. I've never heard anyone disparage White, although he certainly does not get the same love as Bruford. I agree that it has a lot to do with Bruford being the original--he was the first, he laid down the original tracks on Yes' best known tunes. To many, anyone other than the original always seems a little strange. I also prefer Bruford as a drummer between the two, but it's not as if Yes went slumming when they picked up Alan White.
...that polyrhythmic thing is what separates the men from the boyz.
Just read The Real Frank Zappa book...he talks about his music & polyrhythms (duh) & the one guy that got the prize for hearing them & being the best versed-
Vinnie Colaiuta.
No surprise there, right.
I see I chimed in with a similar comment earlier in this thread.
Oh, well...
Bruford left yes; somebody hadda replace him...White is very, very capable. If the guys in the band did not dig him, he would not have lasted as a member.
Saw Bruford do a drum clinic 25 or so years ago. Unreal.
Got to play "Roundabout" with White about 10 years ago. Great fun, and I will say that I exceeded his expectations by actually knowing where the song goes after the main riff.
Had that been Bruford, my bass never would have left its case.
Got to play "Roundabout" with White about 10 years ago. Great fun, and I will say that I exceeded his expectations by actually knowing where the song goes after the main riff.
Had that been Bruford, my bass never would have left its case.
Ric5
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I was always of the camp where I agreed that bruford was better than white ... but I recently picked up a Anderson Bruford Wakeman and Howe cd and dvd ... on that Bruford is annoying ....
So Bruford may be "better" ... but with Yes I prefer White.
So Bruford may be "better" ... but with Yes I prefer White.
