Bill Bruford / Alan White

[hairyhaw]

Ah, but it's in Bill's nature to push some boundaries with his equipment. He's admitted himself that the synth drums didn't work out, so he ended up going back to acoustic kits a couple of years after. I'll applaud him for at least having made the effort to try.

If I'm being honest, I've always held Bruford's style closer to my heart than White's, and I don't think White is a better fit for Yes than Bruford in any regard other than personality - Squire and Bruford had a few punch-ups.

Post-Bruford Yesmusic would have worked out pretty different had Bill actually played on it, and it's just fine with White - the opening of Sound Chaser being a great example. Equally, I don't think White's playing improves the tracks up to CTTE. Quite the reverse for me - his straight beat with extended fills on the middle section of Roundabout has always got on my nerves.

So, if it's a Bruford-era tune, I'd rather hear Bruford play it. If it's a White-era tune, I'd rather hear White play it!

And yes, Bruford is retired. But going by the shoddy performance I witnessed the last time I saw Yes at the end of 2011, maybe White should have a think about hanging up his sticks too.

 

[Crimlin]

I like both but prefer the style BB comes to the table with.

An earlier comment nailed it: BB brought innovative ideas into the band to give it the unique sound it had. When Peter Banks was asked to leave, they brought in Steve Howe, who was much more of a virtuoso. The same applies for Tony Kaye being replaced by Rick Wakeman. In these instances, I favor the replacing member for the innovation and creativity they brought into the band, though the previous members, by no means, suck. However, BB left the band of his own accord. He wasn't asked to leave. AW was a convenient and qualified fit, being a roomate to Eddy Offord, and being available, he filled in the gigs for the CTTE tour 3 months later and...VOILA...he's a fully-fledged member.

His style is different. He is outstanding. I like Relayer, I like Going For the One, But I prefer BB and The Yes Album, Fragile and CTTE. And I'm glad he left when he did to put some truly groundbreaking music together with Crim.

And there's no Yes without Jon Anderson...

 

[drummer5359]

A few of years ago Bill Bruford did a handful of drum clinics. I took off work in the middle of the week and traveled 300 miles each way to catch one of them. (I've been a fan forever.)

It was a great clinic, one thing that he said particularly struck a chord with me. He said that he chose to tune his snare way up high and to play the odd meters that he did because it was the only way he could be heard. He specifically tried to play in spaces where the rest of the band wasn't playing. I laughed at the time, as did the rest of the drummers present.

Later I listened to his early recordings with Yes and it actually sounds like that WAS what he was trying to do.

As for who was or is a better drummer, that's like asking which bass is better, a precision or a jazz... Seriously, both are great drummers. Bruford was with the band first and therefore may get a little more credit than White. Both of them were and are great drummers.

 

[Jools4001]

I've always loved listening to great drummers, and have had Bruford right up there amongst my heroes since the 70's. Crimson, Yes, UK, Bruford (with Berlin and Holdsworth) I couldn't get enough.

Then, must be over 10 years ago now, I went to see him in a small local venue with his jazz quartet (Bruford's Earthworks). During the gig he said that a lot of people only seemed to know him for his rock stuff. After the gig, he was in the bar near the merchandise and since I'd just bought the CD that they'd just been promoting at the gig, I asked him whether he would sign it.

He did so, rather wearily, and while he was autographing it I said that I was one of those people who liked pretty much everything he'd done. To my dismay, he just said "oh, really" but did so with a really disdainful, sneering attitude, turned his back on me and walked off.

I wasn't trying to drag him into some kind of sycophantic drivel, just a sentence to say how much I'd enjoyed his work over the years. I know everyone can have an off day, but I felt really deflated...wouldn't have hurt him to say "thanks, I appreciate it".

My opinion of him as a musician hasn't changed. As a human being? Not such a high regard any more.

 

[Ric5]

If I had a choice for a drummer in my band I would take White over Bruford. Alan White would be easier to play with.

 

[Crimlin]

If the band were predicated on who was nicest, Steve Howe wouldn't be in there either - it would still be Trevor Rabin. It's been said in some interviews that Steve Howe was largely responsible for having Tony Kaye kicked out of the band, as well as Patrick Moraz. And he's been known to yell at audiences. All that said, I want Steve Howe in my band if I had to choose from all of the talented guitarists that have been in Yes. I am a huge Crim fan, and I am sure Robert Fripp can be a peach at times, but I'd love to have him in my band, warts and all...

As far as being a good or bad human being, who would I be to say that a BB or Steve Howe or Robert Fripp are lousy human beings? All I know is that I can get grumpy at work, too. I cannot imagine that feeling of people always wanting a piece of you, even with the best of intentions. Very few people have that gift to handle public situations like that with grace, day in, day out...

If you want to push musical boundaries and have a shot at making interesting commercial music, it's not about who is nice - it's about the music. That's not to say chemistry isn't a part of it, but the creative tension adds to the music, in my opinion. I think BB expanded Chris Squire's vocabulary and made him a better bass player. He did the same for John Wetton.

 

[hairyhaw]

I've always loved listening to great drummers, and have had Bruford right up there amongst my heroes since the 70's. Crimson, Yes, UK, Bruford (with Berlin and Holdsworth) I couldn't get enough.

Then, must be over 10 years ago now, I went to see him in a small local venue with his jazz quartet (Bruford's Earthworks). During the gig he said that a lot of people only seemed to know him for his rock stuff. After the gig, he was in the bar near the merchandise and since I'd just bought the CD that they'd just been promoting at the gig, I asked him whether he would sign it.

He did so, rather wearily, and while he was autographing it I said that I was one of those people who liked pretty much everything he'd done. To my dismay, he just said "oh, really" but did so with a really disdainful, sneering attitude, turned his back on me and walked off.

I wasn't trying to drag him into some kind of sycophantic drivel, just a sentence to say how much I'd enjoyed his work over the years. I know everyone can have an off day, but I felt really deflated...wouldn't have hurt him to say "thanks, I appreciate it".

My opinion of him as a musician hasn't changed. As a human being? Not such a high regard any more.

And on the flip side, I popped Bruford an email a few years back regarding rhythm section-y stuff and not really expecting a response. Got a pretty helpful response to my question a few days later. He didn't need to do that.

Perhaps you just got him on an off-night.

 

[hairyhaw]

If the band were predicated on who was nicest, Steve Howe wouldn't be in there either - it would still be Trevor Rabin. It's been said in some interviews that Steve Howe was largely responsible for having Tony Kaye kicked out of the band, as well as Patrick Moraz. And he's been known to yell at audiences. All that said, I want Steve Howe in my band if I had to choose from all of the talented guitarists that have been in Yes. I am a huge Crim fan, and I am sure Robert Fripp can be a peach at times, but I'd love to have him in my band, warts and all...

As far as being a good or bad human being, who would I be to say that a BB or Steve Howe or Robert Fripp are lousy human beings? All I know is that I can get grumpy at work, too. I cannot imagine that feeling of people always wanting a piece of you, even with the best of intentions. Very few people have that gift to handle public situations like that with grace, day in, day out...

If you want to push musical boundaries and have a shot at making interesting commercial music, it's not about who is nice - it's about the music. That's not to say chemistry isn't a part of it, but the creative tension adds to the music, in my opinion. I think BB expanded Chris Squire's vocabulary and made him a better bass player. He did the same for John Wetton.

Howe may well have voiced an opinion against Kaye but I always thought that he was ultimately sacked by Anderson and Squire because of his refusal to embrace synths and that most of the personnel decisions were handled by them in the early days e.g. Banks getting handed his jacket and shown the door for not digging the orchestral direction taken on Time and a Word.

What you say about Bruford expanding Squire's playing is spot on - he really pulled the best out of CS IMO.