Bill the Buddha Dickens

[Moo]

First, how do you define better? Is better, "chops for days/playing circles around someone/soloing"? Or is better, playing the perfect line for the song? In my opinion, Sting/Mark Sandman/Nick Oliveri/Micheal Henderson/etc (supporting bassists; rarely ,if ever, soloists) are all "better" to me because they play parts that fit the song for the entire song. They support the song, keep the song interesting, and do their job. Flash is secondary to the music.

........

The analogy was to show the nature of the crowd that he draws. They come for the wow factor. He is playing an ERB (something most haven't even heard of much less seen) and he is playing it fast. Wow factor has never moved me, sorry. I find his soloing about as interesting as a car crash, which something I am not even slightly interested in. Again that is my opinion, if you love it great. Not to say he isn't talented, but I don't like what he creates with his talent.

I agree with a lot of what you're saying. I've been at enough of Bills shows at NAMM both at booths and concerts at night, if you listen to the comments in the crowd they are often far from complimentary, not unlike at a car wreck.

And to beat the dead horse of crowd size again, if we look at the size of Oteil's audiences which is larger. Peacemakers or Allman Brothers? It seems more people like less notes.

 

[Lo end PUNCH]

Really?? Now thats real funny, because all the folks I know were complaining about how He was completely surrounded by fans after the show and they couldnt get to him, and thats certainly how it was after I attended his show, all bassists on the first five rows. Guess you left too early to witness that. Either way, He was, is, and probably will be one of the best players/wankers around.

 

[Bryan R. Tyler]

Its now available onhis website

Where? I couldn't find it anywhere on his website.

 

[Whappo Grande]

It really helps to get the complete picture if you actually know someone & spend time with them. First & foremost, Bill’s the nicest, most humble guy you could ever meet & I’m blessed to call him my friend for the last four years.

Playing wise, Bill goes as deep in the pocket as it gets. He is completely content to play groove & nothing but the groove all night long. He’s told me many times, “I don’t get paid to solo; I get paid to lay the foundation & groove.” Now, if someone wants him to solo during a gig, he’s more than happy to accommodate.

Michael Manring & Steve Lawson (to name two of my heroes) are known for their unique niches that they have carved very well for themselves. However to lump them, like Bill, into a one trick pony corner would be a serious mistake because their pocket is also as deep as it gets. As with Bill, they are serious multifaceted musicians, which some people unfortunately mistake as one dimensional. Nothing could be further from the truth.

BTW: Bill is putting the finishing touches to his new CD as we speak. Knowing how good things take time, it may not be ready until the winter NAMM show, although it could be released this fall.

Whappo
AccuGroove Speaker Cabinets

 

[Lo end PUNCH]

It really helps to get the complete picture if you actually know someone & spend time with them. First & foremost, Bill’s the nicest, most humble guy you could ever meet & I’m blessed to call him my friend for the last four years.

What I've been saying all along.

 

[Adam Barkley]

What I've been saying all along.

I don't think anyone disputed Bill's personality.

 

[Moo]

I don't think anyone disputed Bill's personality.

Exactly (and I've known him longer than 4 years) he's a great guy and we've chatted a few times. Every time I've seen him he's smiling and laughing and being a positive nice guy. But he is still king of the NAMM show wank and quite well known for it. This is all part of his complexity.

To his credit his guitar store licks are very clean, he's not as sloppy as Wooten (there, that should breath some new life into this thread )

 

[Garry Goodman]

The concept of "wanking" doesn't seem to apply to a working session musician.

 

[Moo]

Hi Garry, what did that mean? I lost ya.

 

[Garry Goodman]

Hi Garry, what did that mean? I lost ya.

Hi
IMO
I asked earlier for a specific example,i.e. a specfic track,recording or other audio reference for "Exhibit A". I need someone to point out "Listen! Right there at measure 16! Wank!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!" Let's be specific.Video taped jam sessions don't count.

To accuse Bill of "Wanking" is in some way saying one is some sort of expert on the subject of Bass playing, and has detected a flaw in his playing. In my 40 years behind the bass, I've yet to meet such an expert.
How any non-full time bassist can criticize a full time pro is beyond me.

I mentioned NAMM because I stood next to Bill as he slapped for a length of time.He was just having some high energy fun,which resulted in an ovation from an ever growing crowd.A standing ovation at that! (yes,I know there were no seats, but...)How many standing ovations have any of us had for just "wanking"?
( note: isn't there a song that goes " I want to wank just like Bill Dickens, just so I can get some applause"?)

So do you think I am going to say to Bill after that solo : "Bill, that was some of the sloppiest,tastesless,clam filled crap I ever heard, you wanker, you! You didn't even slap through chord changes and at bar 4054 of your improvised solo, you hit a Bb instead of a B on that 64th note run!" ?
( Meanwhile all the people are still applauding)

I don't think so. I know Bill can play and knows what to play and when to play it. A player doesn't get called back for work if he can't cut it, so "wanking" doesn't apply here.If a mono-chord slap solo was all Bill ever played, I would have to consider sending him a cd-rom with "Anti-Wank, v 6.1".

Why single out Bill? I've heard some tracks recorded by some "Bass Heros" that are worse than wanking.One guy didn't bother to intonate his basses before tracking.If I mentioned his name, I'd get flamed for days.Besides it was just some more playing by a guy who clearly overdosed on Jaco and Stanley albums.
If someone on this forum thinks they can rip Bill a new one, don't criticize him, post an example of your wanking and dazzle us.
Now these are just some of my thoughts on this topic, and by no means intended to be taken too seriously.Music is supposed to be fun, right? Wanking too.

 

[Adam Barkley]

Hi
IMO
I asked earlier for a specific example,i.e. a specfic track,recording or other audio reference for "Exhibit A". I need someone to point out "Listen! Right there at measure 16! Wank!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!" Let's be specific.Video taped jam sessions don't count.

To accuse Bill of "Wanking" is in some way saying one is some sort of expert on the subject of Bass playing, and has detected a flaw in his playing. In my 40 years behind the bass, I've yet to meet such an expert.
How any non-full time bassist can criticize a full time pro is beyond me.

I mentioned NAMM because I stood next to Bill as he slapped for a length of time.He was just having some high energy fun,which resulted in an ovation from an ever growing crowd.A standing ovation at that! (yes,I know there were no seats, but...)How many standing ovations have any of us had for just "wanking"?
( note: isn't there a song that goes " I want to wank just like Bill Dickens, just so I can get some applause"?)

So do you think I am going to say to Bill after that solo : "Bill, that was some of the sloppiest,tastesless,clam filled crap I ever heard, you wanker, you! You didn't even slap through chord changes and at bar 4054 of your improvised solo, you hit a Bb instead of a B on that 64th note run!" ?
( Meanwhile all the people are still applauding)

I don't think so. I know Bill can play and knows what to play and when to play it. A player doesn't get called back for work if he can't cut it, so "wanking" doesn't apply here.If a mono-chord slap solo was all Bill ever played, I would have to consider sending him a cd-rom with "Anti-Wank, v 6.1".

Why single out Bill? I've heard some tracks recorded by some "Bass Heros" that are worse than wanking.One guy didn't bother to intonate his basses before tracking.If I mentioned his name, I'd get flamed for days.Besides it was just some more playing by a guy who clearly overdosed on Jaco and Stanley albums.
If someone on this forum thinks they can rip Bill a new one, don't criticize him, post an example of your wanking and dazzle us.
Now these are just some of my thoughts on this topic, and by no means intended to be taken to seriously.Music is supposed to be fun, right? Wanking too.

So you are saying because he makes his living playing bass, that people who do not make their living playing bass are unable to critique his playing?

I wasn't picking on Bill, I was telling my opinion of his soloing. I dislike it, but he loves it, then good for him.

I dislike unmusical soloing on every instrument, not just bass. Space and melody are the things I think a solo should have.

Not as many notes per bar as possible with little or no melody. I'm sorry I deem that stuff to be wanking.

Peace,
Adam

 

[Garry Goodman]

So you are saying because he makes his living playing bass, that people who do not make there living playing bass are unable to critique his playing?

I wasn't picking on Bill, I was telling my opinion of his soloing. I dislike it, but he loves it, then good for him.

I dislike unmusical soloing on every instrument, not just bass. Space and melody are the things I think a solo should have.

Not as many notes per bar as possible with little or no melody. I'm sorry I deem that stuff to be wanking.

Peace,
Adam

I wasn't directing this to you per say. There seems to a lot of bassist who, as we used to say back in the day "haven't paid their dues" and knock guys who have.Your opinion is valid. If "dislike unmusical soloing" was the reference instead of "wanking", this thread would have taken on a different tone (no pun intended).Maybe it's me, but it come across as "Bill's a Wanker!" There was even criticisim of his singing. Sounds like some "Bill Bashing" to me, not a discussion on unmusical soloing.

When you state your thoughts, such as a dislike for unmusicality, it takes on an air of dignity. A non pro can criticize a pro. Obviously it is a common occurance on Talk Bass.It makes some feel better about their playing. My point is that when an opinion is expressed as a fact, it takes on a different feel.

"Wanking" indicated , at least to me, a sense of idiotic, unconscious , mindless "noodling". Bill's slapping was a very concentrated, focused energy that does require skill to pull off. What is unmusicial is up to each listener to determine.To me,using the term "wanking" in the same sentence with "Bill Dickens" is an oxymoron.It omits all of his musicianship and takes his abilities out of context.

As discussed on this thread,Bill makes his living as a bass player,and the "NAMM show wanking" is just one aspect of his playing.You are not hearing every session or gig he does.Not every solo. To criticize his playing when one hasn't accomplished what he has seems a little off to me. To single out the slap solos at NAMM is another story.

Slapping, in general does nothing for me,and IMO it all is wanking.Guys who can't lock into a click, a groove,play through changes,sight read, swing,tumbao but can slap a bass silly over an E7 chord could be considered wankers by some.

I viewed Bill's slap solo at NAMM as a piece of performance art that did what it was intended to do-draw a crowd.
If this thread didn't come across as "Bill Bash #23", why do so many feel a need to vouch for him, his character and his playing in their posts?

Many musicians who have busted their butts to make a living as a full time musician need to qualify a player when that player criticizes a pro.

I worked for decades on mastering playing to a click track so my time is right on the money.When I get on a gig with a guy who says "hey man, your rushing!", I pull him aside and give him the metronome test, which 8 out 10 usually fail. This guy wasn't qualified to say anything about my time,or anybody else's.Case in point: if you are going to express an opinion and start a thread on someone like Bill, some of us want to know that you are a pretty sick soloist yourself.I for one want to know you can hear at least what I can hear. Then it would be more about the specific solo, and not Bill as a player.
I hope this makes sense.

 

[Adam Barkley]

I wasn't directing this to you per say. There seems to a lot of bassist who, as we used to say back in the day "haven't paid their dues" and knock guys who have.Your opinion is valid. If "dislike unmusical soloing" was the reference instead of "wanking", this thread would have taken on a different tone (no pun intended).Maybe it's me, but it come across as "Bill's a Wanker!" There was even criticisim of his singing. Sounds like some "Bill Bashing" to me, not a discussion on unmusical soloing.

When you state your thoughts, such as a dislike for unmusicality, it takes on an air of dignity. A non pro can criticize a pro. Obviously it is a common occurance on Talk Bass.It makes some feel better about their playing. My point is that when an opinion is expressed as a fact, it takes on a different feel.

"Wanking" indicated , at least to me, a sense of idiotic, unconscious , mindless "noodling". Bill's slapping was a very concentrated, focused energy that does require skill to pull off. What is unmusicial is up to each listener to determine.To me,using the term "wanking" in the same sentence with "Bill Dickens" is an oxymoron.It omits all of his musicianship and takes his abilities out of context.

As discussed on this thread,Bill makes his living as a bass player,and the "NAMM show wanking" is just one aspect of his playing.You are not hearing every session or gig he does.Not every solo. To criticize his playing when one hasn't accomplished what he has seems a little off to me. To single out the slap solos at NAMM is another story.

Slapping, in general does nothing for me,and IMO it all is wanking.Guys who can't lock into a click, a groove,play through changes,sight read, swing,tumbao but can slap a bass silly over an E7 chord could be considered wankers by some.

I viewed Bill's slap solo at NAMM as a piece of performance art that did what it was intended to do-draw a crowd.
If this thread didn't come across as "Bill Bash #23", why do so many feel a need to vouch for him, his character and his playing in their posts?

Many musicians who have busted their butts to make a living as a full time musician need to qualify a player when that player criticizes a pro.

I worked for decades on mastering playing to a click track so my time is right on the money.When I get on a gig with a guy who says "hey man, your rushing!", I pull him aside and give him the metronome test, which 8 out 10 usually fail. This guy wasn't qualified to say anything about my time,or anybody else's.Case in point: if you are going to express an opinion and start a thread on someone like Bill, some of us want to know that you are a pretty sick soloist yourself.I for one want to know you can hear at least what I can hear. Then it would be more about the specific solo, and not Bill as a player.
I hope this makes sense.

I think the main reason people have vouched for him so is because they can't stand for people to have an opinion different than theirs.

Oftentimes, the more rabid the fan, the more mindless their opinions are.

I posted that I didn't like his playing and the Inquisition set out to prove my opinion wrong. People can't accept that someone might not like their favorite bass player.

I have a feeling I might not mind his fingerstyle soloing if it is as tasteful everyone has mentioned, but his slapping is awful noise to my ears. No melody, just speed. The musical ecquivalent of shouting, "Look at me" or "Look what I can do."

 

[Garry Goodman]

Agreed. But as I have mentioned earlier, I could say that about many "slappers". Everytime I go to GC or a music store,there is always a guy slapping on a bass,loudly. I joked with Mike Adler at winter NAMM because I was walking swing /jazz bass lines on one of his basses at his booth.I said, "no one will be stopping here while I play this."

Slapping went from being new with Larry Graham, to Fusion with Stanley to Brother's Johnson to Disco to overkill by the mid 1980's. Yet it stayed with bass players and became some kind of indication of how good a bass player is. Like anything over done,it got old.Slapping still has it's useful moments. IMO, Bill just plays what people want to hear, and in the limited context of NAMM,it works.

People vouch for Bill because this thread wreaks of Bill Bashing. Opinions are opinions.To mention his singing or his weight is not a discussion on tasteless soloing. Your post was reasonable.Look at the stuff that was edited.

 

[Moo]

Hi
IMO
I asked earlier for a specific example,i.e. a specfic track,recording or other audio reference for "Exhibit A". I need someone to point out "Listen! Right there at measure 16! Wank!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!" Let's be specific.Video taped jam sessions don't count.

That's ridiculous, you can't just say video taped wanks don't count. Of course they do.

To accuse Bill of "Wanking" is in some way saying one is some sort of expert on the subject of Bass playing, and has detected a flaw in his playing. In my 40 years behind the bass, I've yet to meet such an expert.

I'm not saying I'm an expert, would I need to meet your stringent qualifications to say he has a wicked groove? (which I did by the way)

How any non-full time bassist can criticize a full time pro is beyond me.

I find your opinion to be invalid because you do not make your living on the internet. The fact that you are a musician means your statements on this board are flawed.

See how crazy that sounds?

I mentioned NAMM because I stood next to Bill as he slapped for a length of time.He was just having some high energy fun,which resulted in an ovation from an ever growing crowd.A standing ovation at that! (yes,I know there were no seats, but...)How many standing ovations have any of us had for just "wanking"?

None, and I say that proudly

( note: isn't there a song that goes " I want to wank just like Bill Dickens, just so I can get some applause"?)

Sung to the tune of Straw Man Argument.

So do you think I am going to say to Bill after that solo : "Bill, that was some of the sloppiest,tastesless,clam filled crap I ever heard, you wanker, you! You didn't even slap through chord changes and at bar 4054 of your improvised solo, you hit a Bb instead of a B on that 64th note run!" ?

Actually my opinion of his NAMM show wanking has no bearing on what you will say. But I would never refer to Bill's playing as sloppy or clam filled. His technique is some of the best. His wanking is very clean and precise.

( Meanwhile all the people are still applauding)

Obviously not all, many are laughing.

I don't think so. I know Bill can play and knows what to play and when to play it. A player doesn't get called back for work if he can't cut it, so "wanking" doesn't apply here.If a mono-chord slap solo was all Bill ever played, I would have to consider sending him a cd-rom with "Anti-Wank, v 6.1".

You keep adding all this ridiculous hyperbole to make your argument more binary, please don't as this will derail any serious discussion. No one said he plays one chord and doesn't work. And wanking is job number one at a NAMM show.

Why single out Bill? I've heard some tracks recorded by some "Bass Heros" that are worse than wanking.One guy didn't bother to intonate his basses before tracking.If I mentioned his name, I'd get flamed for days.Besides it was just some more playing by a guy who clearly overdosed on Jaco and Stanley albums.

If you don't think we can feel Bill wanks how can you feel other people wank? Is it because you're are a full time professional?

If someone on this forum thinks they can rip Bill a new one, don't criticize him, post an example of your wanking and dazzle us.

This is just childish. Not to mention more ridiculous hyperbole. Do I have your permission to form an opinion of my drummer? I don't play drums for a living but I would like to have an opinion okay?

Now these are just some of my thoughts on this topic, and by no means intended to be taken too seriously.Music is supposed to be fun, right? Wanking too.

As long as you see it as wanking

 

[Moo]

As discussed on this thread,Bill makes his living as a bass player,and the "NAMM show wanking" is just one aspect of his playing.You are not hearing every session or gig he does.Not every solo. To criticize his playing when one hasn't accomplished what he has seems a little off to me. To single out the slap solos at NAMM is another story.

Slapping, in general does nothing for me,and IMO it all is wanking.

If all slap is wanking, then slapping super fast to a crowd of male bass players who are all going "whoa! look how fast he slaps" has got to be wanking.

You just made a statement that all slap is wanking but are all upset that someone pointed out Bill does it too.

If you accept he's a wanker at NAMM then he's a wanker, that statement in no way precludes him from having a second or even third musical quality.

 

[Moo]

I think the main reason people have vouched for him so is because they can't stand for people to have an opinion different than theirs.

Oftentimes, the more rabid the fan, the more mindless their opinions are.

I posted that I didn't like his playing and the Inquisition set out to prove my opinion wrong. People can't accept that someone might not like their favorite bass player.

To play internet shrink, lashing out at differing opinions is a sign of insecurity.

I have a feeling I might not mind his fingerstyle soloing if it is as tasteful everyone has mentioned, but his slapping is awful noise to my ears. No melody, just speed. The musical ecquivalent of shouting, "Look at me" or "Look what I can do."

He really is good, in his famous NAMM show late nite wank tune he plays 2 descending notes before firing up the electric typewriter and repeats them each time the form rolls around. In just those 2 notes you can hear just how deep his giant pockets are. I'd prefer to hear more of that. Maybe someone can post a link?

 

[Lo end PUNCH]

abark000, the next time you get a chance or "if" you do, to meet Bill, tell him how you feel. I've got a problem with you saying what is and what is not musical. Music can be made with two garbage cans. Not what you think a definition is. Some African tribes do music on nothing but drums using complexed rythmsso its not musical if Bill does it on bass??? C'mon listen to yourself, you have contradicted the very point you have tried to make. It might br a little easier if you just admit that you really havent heard enough of Bill's material to call him a "wanker". Marcus Miller is a great bassist but I jhave seen him do three minute slap solo's

 

[Moo]

Agreed. But as I have mentioned earlier, I could say that that about many "slappers". Everytime I go to GC or a music store,there is always a guy slapping on a bass,loudly. I joked with Mike Adler at winter NAMM because I was walking swing /jazz bass lines on one of his basses at his booth.I said, "no one will be stopping here while I play this."

No wank, no crowd. You now seem to be now arguing wank draws crowds.

Slapping went from being new with Larry Graham, to Fusion with Stanley to Brother's Johnson to Disco to overkill by the mid 1980's. Yet it stayed with bass players and became some kind of indication of how good a bass player is. Like anything over done,it got old.Slapping still has it's useful moments. IMO, Bill just plays what people want to hear, and in the limited context of NAMM,it works.

People at NAMM want wank, Bill is the king of wank. This is not all Bill can do.

And slapping predates Larry by decades. Unless uprights don't count as basses.

 

[j-raj]

Apparently somebody didn't sleep through logic and philosophy lectures in college.