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Bill the Buddha Dickens

#81
Lo end PUNCH said:
abark000, the next time you get a chance or "if" you do, to meet Bill, tell him how you feel. I've got a problem with you saying what is and what is not musical. Music can be made with two garbage cans. Not what you think a definition is. Some African tribes do music on nothing but drums using complexed rythmsso its not musical if Bill does it on bass??? C'mon listen to yourself, you have contradicted the very point you have tried to make. It might br a little easier if you just admit that you really havent heard enough of Bill's material to call him a "wanker". Marcus Miller is a great bassist but I jhave seen him do three minute slap solo's
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I voiced my opinions. They differ from yours; I'm sorry that I don't put him on some plateau like you do. Get over it.

I listen to Dillinger Escape Plan and The Red Chord, two bands who make their living by being atonal and spastic. Their songs are full of energy and very atonal. They have structure to back it up, not just chops. The main thing that you are missing is that I decide for myself what is musical. I don't decide your idea of musical; you do. A ten minute long double thumping solo isn't musical to me and it never will be.

I love Marcus Miller by the way, he uses space wisely and plays using melody. Everything I've heard from Bill has been the exact opposite.

Think about this. You watch a movie you hate from the first viewing. Someone keeps trying to explain how great that movie is; great symbolism, acting, narration, etc. and what have you. Would you care to find out what the big deal about the movie is? Of course not. You can decide for yourself that you disliked that movie and that you will never watch it again. You don't have to watch the sequel because you know you hated the first movie.

Does that make sense to you?
 
#82
Yeah the movie theory makes sense but I view it more like this, I hated pretty much everything about the movie "Pitch Black", yet all my friends were telling me how cool it was. I disagreed, but what I DID get out of it was Vin Diesel's great character performance. Vin's a good actor,in a bad movie, that not only kept me watching but also led me enjoy SOME of the special effects sequencing, and those two things alone kept me watching.I also cant say I'm gonna hate a sequel soley based on the origonal, that is a forsight that I dont have, for instance Blade 1, so-so, Blade 2, LOVED IT! and woud have missed out not seeing it based soley on what I thought about the first one. Does that make sense? As was said before, theres more to Bill than slapping/speed (try slowing some of those slap performances down and LISTEN) and focusing on that alone COULD end up In you missing out on some great bass playing. I'll listen to the suggested bands you listed because I'm ALWAYS looking for great music. Check out some of Bill's work with Ramsey Lewis or Chaka Kahn, no "wanking" just great bass playing and truthfully, just great music period. and yes, You can define in your own MIND what is music to YOU yes, but not what is MUSICAL because to this, there ARE rules, there IS a difference.
 
#84
Man some people really have a lot of growing up to do.

If I said Marcus was funky does that mean he isn't anything else ever? I've seen many people laugh at Bill over the years, try to understand that doesn't mean nothing else has ever happened on the planet. I never said people aren't applauding, people are applauding and laughing. The world aint that black & white.
 
#85
WHATEVER Bill is doing, It's getting him paid. Period. Call him a wank all you want, he STILL gets gigs, he STILL gets studio dates for great artists, he STILL sells out performances, he STILL has endorsements, He STILL has the respect of many artists and manufacturers, etc,etc,etc. Just realised something, Bill needs no defending, He's accomplished a lot in his career, he's a great guy. So if "wanking gets him all this positivety, wank on
 
#86
Lo end PUNCH said:
WHATEVER Bill is doing, It's getting him paid. Period. Call him a wank all you want, he STILL gets gigs, he STILL gets studio dates for great artists, he STILL sells out performances, he STILL has endorsements, He STILL has the respect of many artists and manufacturers, etc,etc,etc. Just realised something, Bill needs no defending, He's accomplished a lot in his career, he's a great guy. So if "wanking gets him all this positivety, wank on
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Listen you are missing the point. People asked what they thought about Bill; people voiced their opinions. Got it. Don't defend him, defend him, do what you feel like. Opinions are hard to change and the way you voiced you didn't win anyone over to your mindset.

Instead of berating people with different opinions, suggest to them. Examples.

"I don't like Bill's slapping" - Joe Blow
"Oh man you should hear Bills fingerstyle work. Here is a link. Check it out." - Loendpunch

vs.

"I've disliked everything I've heard by Bill" - Adam Barkley
"Bill has endorsements, draws crowds, blah blah, your opinion is incorrect" - Loendpunch

See what I mean. If you don't then I'm sorry.

Here are some more of my opinions; have a field day.

-Most modern fusion sounds like music I've heard on the Weather Channel
-Drums solos are annoying 90% percent of the time
-Ditto for bass solos
-Mike Patton is a good vocalist, nothing more. Not a god as many would think.
-A good vocalist in a sea of awful ones will stand out.
-Most musical "heros" have soul and style, not just chops.
-I would go further and say chops, technique, or talent is not required to be a musical hero.
-Oranges are a better fruit than apples.
-Richie Havens' performance was the most powerful one of the entire Woodstock concert.
-Cafeteria food sucks
-Some people couldn't see the light of day if the sun was a foot from there face.
-Opinionated people couldn't tell that they were being burned if the sun were an inch from there face.
-Tie-dyed shirts are stupid.

Peace,
Adam
 
#87
Instead of berating people with different opinions, suggest to them. Examples
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Part of my LAST post read; "bill needs no defending" I think that says it all from my POV. Get it? or not? Keep your opinion/s. You are entitled to them. Oh, and my FIRST post(or was it the second? :eyebrow: ) in this thread DID list information and suggestions to those mis/un-informed about Bill's music as was a lot of his other "defenders" here. Two posts up and further back, listening to Bill's work with Ramsey Lewis was suggested, was it not? Chaka Kahn? You've completely ignored those suggestions, then turned around and said THAT"s what we should do?
 
#89
Lo end PUNCH said:
Part of my LAST post read; "bill needs no defending" I think that says it all from my POV. Get it? or not? Keep your opinion/s. You are entitled to them. Oh, and my FIRST post(or was it the second? :eyebrow: ) in this thread DID list information and suggestions to those mis/un-informed about Bill's music as was a lot of his other "defenders" here. Two posts up and further back, listening to Bill's work with Ramsey Lewis was suggested, was it not? Chaka Kahn? You've completely ignored those suggestions, then turned around and said THAT"s what we should do?
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No links? Not in that post or any other post in this thread.

If you were serious about wanting to expose his fingerstyle playing to a disbeliever than I think you could find a clip of his playing for me.

Honestly, why should I look for links or worse buy an album that he played on? I've already formed my opinion of his playing. His playing, nothing more; I'm sure he is the nicest human being you've ever met. That is not at question here, lest you forget.

Proof and disproof is the crux of this biscut. Prove to me that he is worthy of my time and I'll be the first one admit he isn't as one-dimensional as the clips I've seen have shown him to be. All you have done is failed to disprove my opinion.

I have heard enough of his high speed slapping for a lifetime, by principle I am trying to avoid anything with his name attached to it. Convince me.

You were serious about debating the undebatable and it shows.

Just drop it. Or show me a link to prove how baseless my opinion is.
 
#90
Well I am jumping into this kind of late but I agree with abark000 on this 100%. I can't stand bills soloing. All I see when he solos is his left hand index and ring finger alternating on the fretboard way up high, and all I'm hearing is whack whack whack as fast as he can go. No real notes, not really playing through changes. To me it's just not music at all.

I don't think slap is wanking, I think it's really cool and sounds great when done well. After all it's only another way of plucking strings. It has absolutely no bearing on what it is you play. However I have yet to hear a single track from Bill that made me think "wow that's great music." I know I've seen other people say he is a great but I've yet to see it. It seems like on every track I've heard and every video I've seen it quickly goes to "whack whack whack." After all just look how he promotes himself on his website. He promotes his speed.
 
#91
Let me play the other side of this one for a minute. While I know Bill as the king of wank at NAMM he is also one of the best players around when he isn't wanking. His time, feel and technique are perfect to my ears. I wish I had a link to show this.

Unfortunately his fame is for his speed wanking. A bit of a double edged sword here. Almost all his reputation amongst bassists is for speed but very few know his other work.

A inverse phenomena like this could be Phil Collins, most of his fame comes from sugary pop garbage and few people are aware his drumming is on a par with the greats (listen to Brand X for examples). Oh well :)

Oh, who's heard Bill's speed slapping with heavy distortion? That's a treat that rivals white noise.
 
#92
abark000 said:
No links? Not in that post or any other post in this thread.

If you were serious about wanting to expose his fingerstyle playing to a disbeliever than I think you could find a clip of his playing for me.

Honestly, why should I look for links or worse buy an album that he played on? I've already formed my opinion of his playing. His playing, nothing more; I'm sure he is the nicest human being you've ever met. That is not at question here, lest you forget.

Proof and disproof is the crux of this biscut. Prove to me that he is worthy of my time and I'll be the first one admit he isn't as one-dimensional as the clips I've seen have shown him to be. All you have done is failed to disprove my opinion.

I have heard enough of his high speed slapping for a lifetime, by principle I am trying to avoid anything with his name attached to it. Convince me.

You were serious about debating the undebatable and it shows.

Just drop it. Or show me a link to prove how baseless my opinion is.
Click to expand...

I have been reading this thread for a couple of days and I think I am going to jump in.

Here is a link to a page of his playing with the Soul Children of Chicago. Check out all of these tracks. Also check the notes and you will see his name for playing keyboards, bass, and drum programming.
Link Removed


Bill is a very talented player but he has become a victim of his so called wankery. A lot of people don't know about the work he has done before all of the NAMM shows and slapfests. I used to listen to these songs and try to learn the basslines when I was younger and just found out recently that Bill was the one playing. As a gospel player Bill is known in Chicago.
 
#93
Yes, Bill can play a ton of notes and does so on massively extended-range basses that most people don't even know exist. But that limited familiarity with his playing changed 180 degrees when I bumped into him at the Buffalo Grove (IL) Sam Ash - and we sat and jammed and riffed together for over an hour on his White Conklin and my fretless Lonnybass five string. Musical ideas aplenty, from megachops to melodious fretlessing. It was all there, and it was fun. A really good guy with a boatload of skills and taste. I left feeling energized.

Lonnybass
 
#94
Robear22 said:
I have been reading this thread for a couple of days and I think I am going to jump in.

Here is a link to a page of his playing with the Soul Children of Chicago. Check out all of these tracks. Also check the notes and you will see his name for playing keyboards, bass, and drum programming.
Link Removed


Bill is a very talented player but he has become a victim of his so called wankery. A lot of people don't know about the work he has done before all of the NAMM shows and slapfests. I used to listen to these songs and try to learn the basslines when I was younger and just found out recently that Bill was the one playing. As a gospel player Bill is known in Chicago.
Click to expand...

The music and especially the lyrics aren't my thing. But the playing definitely has a groove. The only thing that I dislike the music is that it seems generic. I don't listen to much gospel or worship music, but everything I've heard has been very similar.

Play On, actually is not that bad, a little "smooth" for my tastes, but not bad at all.

I like his tone on most of the songs and the playing fits which is my main gripe with his soloing. That it is unmusical and kills the entire song for me.

Thanks for the link.
 
#95
Cant post a link because I have this on VHS, but if you can find it online somewhere theres a concert called "The day the bass players took over the world". Bill,Victor(Wooten),Oteil,Steve, features some of Bills best fingerstyle and melodic jazz playing and IMO outshined his peers on this one, solos? sure, but not much slapping. Victor does the majority of that on this one, using the bass to provide a drumlike pattern(there was no drummer) as the other players played over and around it. Steve Bailey seemed a tad bit off but his fretless had a great tone. Oteil did his playing/scat thing with beautiful melodies and Bill did flamming jazz riffs that would probably make even George Benson fans proud. Good stuff.
 

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