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Blown SWR Goliath Dilemma

#21
If you want a usable cab affordable drivers are available. It won't sound exactly the same though.
Link Removed
IF you are a bit handy you could adjust the tuning of the port to suit, there are online tools to model speaker box designs. I don't know if the exact speaker I linked is suitable for your box but it or one of a similar cost is probably workable.
If looking for drivers what you want is Musical instrument or PA speakers as these are usually much more sensitive than home stereo speakers so they get much louder for the same power.

I have no experience with that particular driver but have used Link Removed in foldback mnonitors and it sounds really nice and has held up.

I guess you have found out why the cab was next to nothing though...
 
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#22
Anyone besides me think that a set of Delta 10a’s would be the move? $92 each, but if you bought 4 you could get a decent deal.

On the other hand, good 410s are available cheap because people off them for lighter gear.
 
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#23
MCM 55-2951 does ok in about 0.9 cuft tuned a bit above Fs. If the cab is like 4 cuft they'd make decent drop ins, provided the tuning is in the 40s.

You could divide the cab into two chambers yourself and roll with the two "good" ones.
 
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#27
agedhorse said:
Now we enter the world of "crap-shoot".
Click to expand...

I don’t know how to link specific comments/threads yet, but you are consistent! I was reading one from January 2018 about this very proposal (using different drivers) and this is what you had to say:

“the cabinets will not sound like SWR cabinets. How different is nothing more than a crapshoot.”

I think where I’m at with the premise of attempted replacements is, I have an SM400 and I like the sound to the PA (for my purposes). I don’t know if a Frankenstein goliath is added value over what I already have, considering the money and effort against the potential upside (could be better, worse or the same as the PA sound).
 
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#29
crazyBassClown said:
Why? Because eminence is the only manufacturer that knows about ts parameters?
Click to expand...
I have a question...
If you have a 4 speaker cab with dimensions X, Y, and Z. And you cut it in half so the dimensions are X, Y/2, and Z and use two of the original speakers, do half the speakers in combination with the modified cab, even though it has half the volume, work the same as when it was original? Or does changing the ratio of the dimensions have an impact?
 
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#30
crazyBassClown said:
If you want a usable cab affordable drivers are available. It won't sound exactly the same though.
Link Removed
IF you are a bit handy you could adjust the tuning of the port to suit, there are online tools to model speaker box designs. I don't know if the exact speaker I linked is suitable for your box but it or one of a similar cost is probably workable.
If looking for drivers what you want is Musical instrument or PA speakers as these are usually much more sensitive than home stereo speakers so they get much louder for the same power.

I have no experience with that particular driver but have used Link Removed in foldback mnonitors and it sounds really nice and has held up.

I guess you have found out why the cab was next to nothing though...
Click to expand...

I’m handy enough to work through most gear-related thing methodically (aside from working on amps). I’m really considering all options so I’d like to look into how that type of retuning would work.

Do you have any pointers for where I should start reading up on the particulars? Even some keywords to get me started.

Random note about the seller - to his credit he was as honest as the day is long. He said he blew it years ago and it sat in his basement, a buddy halfheartedly tried to fix it and he was cleaning house and it was totally “as is.”

For my part, I didn’t realize the designing involved in tuning cabs (ignorance in my part) and thought there would be a bunch of aftermarket options that would still get similar tone. Ah well, live and learn.

Funny how all these years playing, and I didn’t bother to wonder how the type and number of speakers interacted with the enclosure… intuitively I knew there was more to a cab’s “sound” than just the speakers used, but didn’t really appreciate the particulars. But as they say, sometimes mistakes are good teachers.
 
#31
basscooker said:
MCM 55-2951 does ok in about 0.9 cuft tuned a bit above Fs. If the cab is like 4 cuft they'd make decent drop ins, provided the tuning is in the 40s.

You could divide the cab into two chambers yourself and roll with the two "good" ones.
Click to expand...

Interesting idea! Do you have any recommendations where I could start researching the redesign needed to convert it to 2 speaker? Could I take the Goliath Jr 2x10 dimensions and partition it inside the Goliath iii?
 
#32
Thanks everyone for your inputs and discussion so far.

My current decision is to “wait and see” a little longer, with the following options on the table:

- I might post a “gear wanted” ad here for any spare PAS drivers.

- I’m also going to keep an eye locally for any Goliath (working or broken). Preferably a Junior since I have two drivers in (potentially) decent working condition, I’d hopefully be able to manage a repair between all the parts available or just keep the drivers I have now as spares.

- I’m going to research what retuning the cab would take (for the sake of investigating all the options)

- Replacing all four with Eminence is off the table (too much $), and replacing less than all 4 is off the table due to performance problems that could create

- I’m considering getting rid of a junky old shelf I have and literally turning the Goliath into a storage cabinet, with a hinge on the grille and nothing inside. I’d have my sm400 in its rack case on the top. This would be the heaviest DI box/preamp rig of all time but I kind of like it.

I have lots to think about and more replies to make. Just thought I’d give an update on where my head is at.
 
#33
MIMico said:
I appreciate the referral! In the cosmic scheme of things I’m not far from Boston, but I’m in Toronto which is plenty far. Thanks though!
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It's not like Toronto is a backwater, though. Lots of great speaker shops around, from budget to bling.

If it's me, I pay someone good to first test the other two to make sure they're still serviceable, and if so, repair the blown ones with the least crappy kits they can find.

Then be happy with the results as a budget banger, without any expectations of it being an acoustic marvel on the order of some fEarful or whatever is latest and greatest. It's an SWR, they have a sound that folks loved for a long time, even if it fell out of vogue. A 410 isn't an ideal layout anyway, so don't be too fussed about it being acoustically imperfect. My favourite amp/cab combo that I own is a noisy old Acoustic 370 on a weird vintage 215 cab with ancient Altec 421a speakers. It is a mess but sounds absolutely fantastic, especially in a room with guitar and drums. Minimal lows, minimal highs, nothing flat about it, but lots of middy 'presence'...

(About 15 years ago I picked up a Super Redhead with two blown drivers. I paid a speaker shop to rebuild them and mod to 8 ohms, an idea I stole from Brian Beller's blog, so I could stack it on a Goliath Jr 8 ohm and have a 410 running at 4 ohms to keep the amp cooler. Worked a treat and sounded like pure Redhead, but better able to keep up with others. Added a HPF to the loop to protect the speakers, though, as the SWR amps apparently didn't filter the lows at all, which supposedly contributed to many Goliath cabs blowing at reasonable volumes.)
 
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#34
Old Garage-Bander said:
If you have a 4 speaker cab with dimensions X, Y, and Z. And you cut it in half so the dimensions are X, Y/2, and Z and use two of the original speakers, do half the speakers in combination with the modified cab, even though it has half the volume, work the same as when it was original? Or does changing the ratio of the dimensions have an impact?
Click to expand...

Changing the dimensions will effect standing waves within the cab but this is a small effect and cabs are usually lined with damping material to suppress these standing waves anyway.
Edit: The square quad boxes are about the worst shape possible in terms of standing waves, the only way to make it worse is make it a cube.

The problem is the tuning of the ports in the speaker depend on box size and may need adjusting depending on design.
But yes, If the speaker box is half the size, with half as many speakers, and either sealed or ported and tuned to the same frequency, it will work the same except for the coupling and low end boost multiple drivers give since you obviously have less drivers.
 
#35
If it were me, I’d try to find an old 810 Megoliath. I just had one for sale. Had the price all the way down to $275 and would’ve taken less. No one really wants those heavy beasts anymore. It’s basically two 410 cabs stacked on top of each other. They don’t come up much, but when they do… they hang around a while due to the weight.
 
#36
MIMico said:
I don’t know how to link specific comments/threads yet, but you are consistent! I was reading one from January 2018 about this very proposal (using different drivers) and this is what you had to say:

“the cabinets will not sound like SWR cabinets. How different is nothing more than a crapshoot.”

I think where I’m at with the premise of attempted replacements is, I have an SM400 and I like the sound to the PA (for my purposes). I don’t know if a Frankenstein goliath is added value over what I already have, considering the money and effort against the potential upside (could be better, worse or the same as the PA sound).
Click to expand...

Have you actually heard the SWR cabinets? I agree if you want exactly that sound you need those speakers in that box. If you want a speaker cab that is usable there are many speakers that will work with varying costs and power handling and bass response and mid range character and whatever else can change.
However if you like the sound to the PA then PA drivers rather than musical instrument are likely to be less coloured(probably) and closer to that PA sound(at least without highs unless a tweeter is in the cab).
 
#37
shnapper said:
I’m in a similar dilemma as the op, a friend did me a favor by frying the 15in driver in my 115 SBX II when he clipped it out. I don’t know what driver to fix this thing with or scrap it??

I like the idea of the op repairing if it’s a well built cab, but as said shipping and overall cost could put you into a new improved cab.

View attachment 4783165
Click to expand...
At least with that, you only have one driver to replace.
 
#38
crazyBassClown said:
Why? Because eminence is the only manufacturer that knows about ts parameters?
Click to expand...
NO, because a driver with different TS parameters will behave differently at low frequencies and the mid voicing of a driver is not well described within the TS parameters (not even close).

Because the original PAS drivers have a unique mid voicing, it's virtually guaranteed that the cabinet won't sound anything like the original cabinet.

The PAS driver was changed to an OEM Eminence driver after PAS shut down, a lot of work went into making it sound similar, though it didn't sound the same (some liked the new driver better, some did not).
 
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#39
JimmyM said:
Anyone besides me think that a set of Delta 10a’s would be the move? $92 each, but if you bought 4 you could get a decent deal.

On the other hand, good 410s are available cheap because people off them for lighter gear.
Click to expand...
I think the OEM replacement driver was based on the Delta 10 metalwork, but there were considerable soft part differences required to get it into a similar ballpark.

One of the best things about the PAS driver was the mid voicing, but this came at the cost of reliability and LF extension. It was fine for smaller amps, but with larger amps it was very problematic (especially without a steep HPF at ~40Hz).
 
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#40
To emphasize, oem is always the best way.

The most predictable, reliable and suggested driver is cost prohibitive for the project.

There may be two working OEM ones (we still don't know, solving that is step 1)

Find the cab tuning as is. Cut cab volume in half and adjust porting to tune to OEM.

Heavy, cheap basement cab project done.

Or if by chance tuning is fairly low, four $25 MCMs and the box will make decent bass sounds.
 
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