Blown SWR Goliath Dilemma

[MIMico]

I have an old SWR SM-400 that’s been collecting dust and thought it would be cool to get a Goliath 4x10 to play it with.

I picked up a Goliath with two blown drivers for next to nothing, thinking “how hard can it be to get running.” Well, thanks to delving into all the threads here, the answer is “pretty hard…”

The crux of the problem is none of the options are very good:

1. Source replacement PAS drivers(good luck) and hope that they don’t blow down the line

2. Use an iffy aftermarket recone kit that will get it playing but not sounding the same (at medium expense for the kits and reconing costs)

3. Replace with Eminence CA 10-8 or CA1059 (found this in a thread quoting a response from Eminence directly), for about $200 CAD each (yikes for an old project cab)

4. Cut my losses and get rid of it…. But how? Can’t imagine there’s much of a market for it given the dilemmas above… is it literally junk at this point? I’ve never thrown out music gear before, it just feels wrong. But even if someone picks it up free, they’ll have the same problems. I’d sell the working drivers (probably) and maybe scrap the rest?

Any insights or advice would be appreciated. I’ve learned so much about the pitfalls of old, unsupported gear so I don’t feel this project was a complete failure. Now I just have to figure out how to finish it off.

PS if anyone has any working PAS drivers collecting dust, I’d be all ears.

 

[Old Garage-Bander]

I have an old SWR SM-400 that’s been collecting dust and thought it would be cool to get a Goliath 4x10 to play it with.

I picked up a Goliath with two blown drivers for next to nothing, thinking “how hard can it be to get running.” Well, thanks to delving into all the threads here, the answer is “pretty hard…”

The crux of the problem is none of the options are very good:

1. Source replacement PAS drivers(good luck) and hope that they don’t blow down the line

2. Use an iffy aftermarket recone kit that will get it playing but not sounding the same (at medium expense for the kits and reconing costs)

3. Replace with Eminence CA 10-8 or CA1059 (found this in a thread quoting a response from Eminence directly), for about $200 CAD each (yikes for an old project cab)

4. Cut my losses and get rid of it…. But how? Can’t imagine there’s much of a market for it given the dilemmas above… is it literally junk at this point? I’ve never thrown out music gear before, it just feels wrong. But even if someone picks it up free, they’ll have the same problems. I’d sell the working drivers (probably) and maybe scrap the rest?

Any insights or advice would be appreciated. I’ve learned so much about the pitfalls of old, unsupported gear so I don’t feel this project was a complete failure. Now I just have to figure out how to finish it off.

PS if anyone has any working PAS drivers collecting dust, I’d be all ears.

I don't have any help to offer. But I would like to welcome you to TB.
If anyone has a solution for this, you've come to the right place to find it.

 

[ihixulu]

I’ve given up on trying to source PAS drivers at this point. Too much hassle, too many are creased, and the recone scene for PAS is too Wild West for my tastes.

Since you’re just replacing 2 I’d go with the CA’s so that you minimize the potential for weird interactions between the drivers. If it were me, I’d just replace all 4 with Basslites and deal with the slight change in tone.

I’m sure there are SWR fans who will take it off your hand as a restoration project so I’d not resort to throwing it out. It’s a decent cab.

 

[agedhorse]

Ultimately you will end up with a pretty heavy cabinet, so with the costs involved, you may wish to rethink this. There may be more money for you to sell the two good drivers and cut your losses.

Note that if 2 drivers are bad, it’s likely that the other two are also damaged.

 

[Old Garage-Bander]

I've sold old drivers to Music-Go-Round. Of course they don't pay you the going street price, about half in my case?
You'd have that option if you decide to buy a different cab.

 

[basscooker]

Is it just for fun and home playing?

Are all 4 drivers in the same airspace?

If you do have two good ones and the cab is internally 2 2x10 you could just use one chamber. If they are 8 or 16 ohm drivers you're good. If they're 4 ohm drivers you will have to rewire them series.

My thoughts.

 

[ihixulu]

Goliaths have one shared airspace for the drivers.

 

[MIMico]

I’m sure there are SWR fans who will take it off your hand as a restoration project so I’d not resort to throwing it out. It’s a decent cab

I hope so. I think you’re talking good sense here. If I sell it more for the parts (in “as-is” condition) I’m sure someone will scoop it up eventually. Part of my issue is space that I need sooner than later so I might have to just unload it on someone unfortunately.

Can just the two be replaced? I’ve heard bad things about mixing drivers in a 4x10

 

[MIMico]

Ultimately you will end up with a pretty heavy cabinet, so with the costs involved, you may wish to rethink this. There may be more money for you to sell the two good drivers and cut your losses.

Note that if 2 drivers are bad, it’s likely that the other two are also damaged.

I’m not too fussed about the weight, I knew it was going to be heavy regardless and I was just going to park it in the corner of my jam room as part of the collection anyway (not gigging with it, moderate volume only).

Good point about the other two though - I hadn’t given adequate thought to that. Two are confirmed blown but I don’t know how good or bad the remaining two are.

From the standpoint of a learning experience, it’s actually been a success… I’ve learned how the whole thing is wired, about cab tuning, reconing, etc.

You’re right though, I actually don’t think it’s worth putting more money into given the condition it’s in. I’m still undecided what to do, ultimately.

I’m thinking of perhaps selling the remaining drivers “as is” and actually converting the empty cab into a literal cabinet for my jam room (put hinges on the front, shelf inside). I’m going to keep the sm-400 anyway for direct recording, so why not?

 

[MIMico]

Is it just for fun and home playing?

Are all 4 drivers in the same airspace?

If you do have two good ones and the cab is internally 2 2x10 you could just use one chamber. If they are 8 or 16 ohm drivers you're good. If they're 4 ohm drivers you will have to rewire them series.

My thoughts.

This is an interesting idea - as others have mentioned though it’s one space.

Its ultimately for fun and home usage (light duty). You’ve given me an interesting thought though. I’m going to look up if the 2x10 Goliath uses the same drivers. I might just hold on to what I have as spares and keep my eyes out for a used and/or broken 2x10. Especially since I plan on barely (if ever) pushing the volume of the sm-400 (anything louder would go direct out to my PA)

 

[iiipopes]

This is an interesting idea - as others have mentioned though it’s one space.

Its ultimately for fun and home usage (light duty). You’ve given me an interesting thought though. I’m going to look up if the 2x10 Goliath uses the same drivers. I might just hold on to what I have as spares and keep my eyes out for a used and/or broken 2x10. Especially since I plan on barely (if ever) pushing the volume of the sm-400 (anything louder would go direct out to my PA)

Viable alternative. I played an SWR Triad as my main gig cab for years. When it blew a tweeter, I found out what an, er, interesting "crossover" it had (none to woofer, choke coil to mid, high-pass to tweeter). As agedhorse said it is heavy, so I relegated it to my band's rehearsal hall, (since it had earned its keep many, many times over) spent @ $150 on a proper crossover and new tweeter element and supplies to upgrade it, and everything sounds better than it did before. Yes, the weight. That is why I put casters on it and it is furniture in the rehearsal hall.

 

[Stewie]

If you are anywhere near Boston, I can recommend a superlative recone guy. I found him through the grapevine and he did an excellent job on my EVM 15B, for which their are no factory rebuild kits.

 

[MIMico]

If you are anywhere near Boston, I can recommend a superlative recone guy. I found him through the grapevine and he did an excellent job on my EVM 15B, for which their are no factory rebuild kits.

I appreciate the referral! In the cosmic scheme of things I’m not far from Boston, but I’m in Toronto which is plenty far. Thanks though!

 

[agedhorse]

I hope so. I think you’re talking good sense here. If I sell it more for the parts (in “as-is” condition) I’m sure someone will scoop it up eventually. Part of my issue is space that I need sooner than later so I might have to just unload it on someone unfortunately.

Can just the two be replaced? I’ve heard bad things about mixing drivers in a 4x10

Mixing different drivers in a common airspace is not generally a good idea.

The PAS drivers weren't very robust, they were used for their unique mid character and were a fine choice until amps got larger and larger. Ultimately, they were deemed not a good choice at the same time that PAS wound down their driver manufacturing operation. I used to recone these but factory kits became unavailable and even with factory kits they were too vulnerable to justify the hassle with those who had unreasonable expectations (claiming warranty repairs on the recones).

 

[Killing Floor]

Spitballing here but isn’t it a viable option to find 4 working speakers with appropriate specs? As said by others there’s a solid chance the other drivers sustained damage.

 

[MIMico]

Spitballing here but isn’t it a viable option to find 4 working speakers with appropriate specs? As said by others there’s a solid chance the other drivers sustained damage.

This is the rabbit hole I went down too - from “surely finding two replacements or reconing two drivers shouldn’t be that hard” to “ok what comparable replacements are there.”

… only to learn that the recommended drivers (compatible with the cabinet tuning) from Eminence are currently about $200 (Canadian) each… and I’d need 4 to completely replace them since mixing drivers isn’t a good call. Looking at the $800 range for something I had intended as more of a low budget salvage project.

That said, I haven’t researched if there’s any other drivers out there that are both compatible and at my price point - frankly the analysis is a bit beyond me. And anything beyond $100 [edit: each] is getting pricey… and anything below might not be very good. In any case, it’s going to sound different than an actual Goliath.

So, is the least bad (if I’m dead set on getting it playing again) to recone the blown drivers and go easy on it going fwd? Probably the most cost effective but I don’t know if it would sound half decent.

Or do I just cut my losses? Welcome to my indecisiveness on this issue

 

[MIMico]

The PAS drivers weren't very robust, they were used for their unique mid character and were a fine choice until amps got larger and larger. Ultimately, they were deemed not a good choice at the same time that PAS wound down their driver manufacturing operation.

This insight is really helpful and actually your comments on goliaths and PAS across a number of threads (and years) have been hugely informative. I didn’t track all the links but you’ve chimed in a lot about cab tuning and how even “compatible” drivers won’t necessarily perform in the same way.

I’d have avoided this dilemma if I had done my due diligence and research here on talkbass BEFORE springing for this cab… but ah well, where’s the fun in that? (kidding)

Edit: Also, re: the reconing and warranty abuse. I could also see why that would be worse with SWR products, depending on the amp model. Someone blew up (figuratively) another cab I had by “EQing” my sm400 after I told them to leave it alone. Amazing what cranking the master and bass and boosting the onboard EQsliders will do to drivers in that scenario. Also without a high pass filter (long before I knew of this issue and I have a very early sm400 model).

Anyway I have an image of this same guy (or his type) sending in that type of thing for warranty work.

 

[agedhorse]

You are not alone, Al least you haven’t dumped another $800 into it at this point.

One challenge is shipping costs to Canada for drivers. Whole I might have a suitable replacement set in my surplus stock, the shipping wouldn’t be very cost effective.

 

[shnapper]

I’m in a similar dilemma as the op, a friend did me a favor by frying the 15in driver in my 115 SBX II when he clipped it out. I don’t know what driver to fix this thing with or scrap it??

I like the idea of the op repairing if it’s a well built cab, but as said shipping and overall cost could put you into a new improved cab.

 

[dabis]

Tryi’n to repair this cab would be expensive and the replacement Eminence models will not sound equal (altough performing better perhaps).
As it will be a cab wich destiny is to stay at the corner, how bad would be to check the “not blown” drivers? Disconnecting the bad ones will make them work as a sort of passive radiators?
I do play a Goliath III and a Goliath III jr. exclusively. The 4x10 has the drivers in excellent condition but the 2x10’s drivers seem to have some kind of previous repair or recone, and also some crates on it, although the performance is very good, rehearsing and live situations.