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Double Bass bluegrass bass workshop

boombloom

boombloom

Aug 17, 2004
1,647
1,747
62
Wadhams! NY (Adirondacks)
#1
OK. For the 5th year in a row I'm running the bass workshop at a little bluegrass festival. It's in about 4 hours. I really focus on the bass basics. Timing. Playing 1 and 3 and letting the mando chunk on 2 and 4. I bring a mando player with me for illustration. I talk about how hard it is to get the basics right and how the rest (slapping, leads etc) are icing on the cake. Give me a solid, no frills player any day over someone who isn't solid but has the licks. People look bored and disappointed when they hear me do this. They want pyrotechnics. I'll be glad to talk folks through single, double and triple slaps. An hour isn't enough time to teach theory to a beginner. Anyone have any recommendations for today's workshop?
Thanks.
 
#2
You probably already do this, but it's good to make sure they understand the bass player's role in the Bluegrass band. There's no percussion section, so the rest of the band depends on the bass to maintain the tempo. A good example is a banjo or guitar player who speeds up on the break - a good bass player can play slightly behind the beat to bring the whole band back to the original tempo.
 
#3
Something else that I've found missing from many workshops is basic technique. You can't do a lot in the short time frame, but some of the basics, like keeping your left elbow up and forming a good left-hand "claw" instead of grabbing the neck like a baseball bat would be helpful. Right hand, too - finger(s) parallel to the string, using the side of the finger and not the fingertip, etc...
 
#5
Only three people showed up. One was a jamband bassist with disdain for bluegrass who had a pretty negative attitude. The others were a 12 year old girl who plays bass in her jr. high band and her mother who made her attend. The kid hates pizz because it hurts and she wanted me to play "ode to joy". After the workshop an intermediate player showed up with lots of good questions and we spent time talking about walking. We talked about the nearly infinite number of ways you can go from a I to a IV in 4 beats and I think she walked away from this as a better musician.
 
#9
boombloom said:
After the workshop an intermediate player showed up with lots of good questions and we spent time talking about walking. We talked about the nearly infinite number of ways you can go from a I to a IV in 4 beats and I think she walked away from this as a better musician.
Click to expand...


sorry boombloom! i guess i was thinking about the intermediate player, not realizing you didnt give a age of that one!! so i took it 4 granted it was a kid!!! ;) also have you checked out www.bluegrassbassplace.com.. alot of way cool bassers over there!!

dang our festivals over here on west coast never have bass workshops, kindof a bummer.. oh well <*)))>(
 
#10
I've a bunch of workshops for kids over the last few years. It is truly a challenge working with kids of different skill- and desire-levels on short time. Frankly, if you really reached one out of four participants that's not for nothing.

Because I'm doing jazz / improvisation workshops, I'm always stressing listening and playing in the moment even for beginners. I've done all kinds of things ranging from silly to sensible to get kids out of their shells. ("OK, everybody turn clockwise and stand on one foot. No, your own foot. Great. 1, 2, 1-2-3 . . .") ("OK, everybody turn your stands around. They should be facing me, not you. Great. 1, 2, 1-2-3 . . .")

Above all, I'm always trying to emphasize the joy of the music.

Keep the faith, bro. Lead the horse to water . . .
 
#12
Spoony said:
I've been playing for a year or two now with very little instruction so if you could lay out some of those infinite ways of going I to IV in 4 beats I'd be a better musician too!
Click to expand...

Sure. Imagine playing in the default key of G. You're headed to C. All the notes you play should be in the key of G. For bluegrass the first note you play against the band's G chord should be the root note "G". For the first note you play with the band's C chord you should hit a "C". Anything else is pure gravy.

I'm not a mathematician and I don't play one on TV. There must be someone out there who can calculate the number of available options here. There are 7 notes in the scale. 8 if you include the octave. There are some chromatic notes that would be kosher too.

So, to go from G to C in 4 notes you could play.....

GGGC
GGAC
GGBC
GBBC
GEDC
GDEC
Anything you want as long as it starts with G, ends in C and is related to the G scale. And it can go up a scale or down. You might be on the G on the D string and headed down to the C on the A string. Listen to the melody of the tune. Listen to what the other folks are doing. Sometimes down is nice, sometimes up is nice--many things in life are like that.

OK. So sometimes I'll be playing along, in a jam or on stage, and all of a sudden some new way of going from I to IV comes to mind and I'll try it. After all these years there's still more ground to cover.

Listen to some great players for ideas. Listen to Monroe's bassists. There is certainly a set of standard routes from I-IV. And try dreaming up some of your own. Pick up your bass and discover 10 ways of doing it right now. And then try I-V, IV-I, IV-V etc. The fun is just beginning!

I hope this helps. I'd be glad to hear ideas from other players out there.
 
#13
Yep -- you gotta listen (to the folks you're playing with and to other bass players) and you've gotta use your imagination. These two things build on each other over time.

Whatever you do in getting from one chord to another, remember your function: to be the bottom of the harmony and to drive the tune forward. You don't want your stuff to be so fancy that you're stepping on the singer or messing with fills the fiddle player might be putting in between the singer's lines and stuff like that.

The jazz idea of making your bass part an independent (but supportive and cohesive) melodic line is a fine, fine idea. I think the best bluegrass bass players know all about that. Think of yourself as a bass singer. So, you can feel that IV chord coming a long ways off -- why just give yourself one bar to get yourself from G to C?

In bluegrass, it's really, really, really important to know that tune. You don't necessarily need to be able to play the melody, but you really should be able to sing it -- if not on stage, in the shower, in the car, etc.

I use a lot of jazz walking line ideas in my bluegrass playing -- mainly this means using chromatic, non-chord tones to connect chords to each other. Doesn't necessarily win me any fans! Some guitar players or what-have-yous will just stop and tell you not to play like that. I don't like playing with those sorts, but I had to learn how to strip it down at the beginning. It's all good.
 
#14
Thanks boombloom - I'm assuming that the root of the second chord would be played on the first beat of the second measure so would GBED C be an appropriate walk to IV? So can you think of any of your favourite 5 note walks?
 
#15
Spoony said:
Thanks boombloom - I'm assuming that the root of the second chord would be played on the first beat of the second measure so would GBED C be an appropriate walk to IV? So can you think of any of your favourite 5 note walks?
Click to expand...

I'm on the road visiting family for 10 days and without an instrument. Spoony--why don't you give us some of your favorites? And listen to some good ol' Monroe, F&S etc. Pick out some of your favorites from the good ol' days.
 
#16
Wow! Nice thread. A very friendly approach to bluegrass playing. Not filled with all of that "no, you got to do this or that" or "jazz is better because you play more notes" or "you absolutely NEED to hear the exact notes in your head befor playing". Now, I don't mean one should not strive to be a better musician and come up with fresh new ideas and listen to the people you're playing with. But, when someone's starting out, it can get a bit confusing. And someone can make the start so much easier by saying: "Hey, the basic idea is *this* so, try playing *that*... I don't know if I'm making any sense. But I just wanted to say this is a nice friendly thread, let's hope it stays that way. I'm playing old (really old) jazz tunes. And what I play is mostly beats 1 and 3, root 5 with some quarter note fills when I feel like it. Sure, it's nothing fancy, intellectual or makes me look like a bass God. But I can lay back and enjoy the music, hold a strong base for the soloist in turn. I just love it when the trumpet player feels confident with what I'm playing and just blows away with joy. I think that's what it´s all about, having fun and making enjoyable music. Well... enough of this...

I got a question:

I don't know much about bluegrass, in fact, I'm going to start listening to it right now to know a bit more and get some fresh ideas. But heres the thing... When I'm playing with my band, I sometimes throw in a bit of syncopation just to give things a little bounce here and there. Like you said, just "icing on the cake". How do you go about this in bluegrass? Do you use it much? none at all? how do "hardcore" bluegrassers react to it?

Cheers
 
#17
ToR-Tu-Ra said:
How do you go about this in bluegrass? Do you use it much? none at all? how do "hardcore" bluegrassers react to it? Cheers
Click to expand...

Welcome to talkbass. everyone here is totaly cool. i have found!! and these OTHER GUYS HERE can give you alot of info.. alot...all you have to do is ASK!!! there is also bluegrassbassplace.com which is my favorite! also way cool people, way cool..

This is my long take on your question!! lol---there is alot of guys in bluegrass that use syncopation, and can do it well. (jason moore of mountain heart),for1example.)makes it sound easy... but alot of bluegrass tunes(traditional) (and hardcore players) are set in their ways, and i find at jams and e.c.t playing with different folks that they can get mad if you change it up just a bit and will give you some stinkeye!!.but thats ok too sometimes...( but some will give you a nod like that was cool, you never know.).... but with your own band, you can do whatever you want.. to me that is why i like to play!! i want my version of a song, to sound like my band... not someones elses.(but also trying to keep the right taste for the song). plus just doing the root / 5th gets a lil boring!!! lol .. i hope one day that i can do the syncopation thing without hesitation! im a newbi to it!!!! again welcome tor-tu-ra
 
#18
First off, I'm glad this thread is so well received. I was looking for advice on something different to do at a workshop but no matter who you are or how you play you can always improve on your basics. When I started in bluegrass I had been playing in garage bands, blues bands, rock bands and even Dead cover bands. Someone asked if I could play bluegrass and I told them I could play anything. I could play all sorts of hot licks and leads, but I had to start all over again when I had to play basics very, very well. That's what bluegrass demands. You have to play the bass basics very well or the rest of it just doesn't matter.

Every player is different, and every band is different. There are some great masters to learn from--players who Have It Down. Even folks who really, really stick to the absolute bare bone. But these folks too have their little fills that make the music theirs. Everyone's got a style. And there are bands that are dead center traditional (Is Karl Shiftlet still out there somewhere, for example?) Or listen to some old Gibson Brothers. Then there are various degrees of moving away from strict traditional. Del's band is really, really bluegrass and for years Mike Bubb provided all sorts of syncopation with that amazing right hand of his. You know, he's a fine banjo player. He told me he thinks of his slapping like a banjo roll. That was a real eye opener to me. I'm listening to a Hamburg bootleg of the Steve Earle/ The Mountain show right now. Bubb has the basics and a whole lot more. And speaking of more, someone mentioned Jason Moore. Mountain Heart is a great band and they know what bluegrass is all about, but they certainly do stray from the straight. Jason himself played lots of rock and roll on his family's upright when he was younger. His bass playing is informed by a wide range of bassists.

OK. Time to get the dogs out, make some coffee and put the bass away. I left it on the living room floor when I came home from last night's gig and it is now in dire peril. Good morning everyone!
 
#19
I am primarily a bass guitarist, noodled around on dad's upright until I inherited it a little over a year ago, and started to take a more serious approach to studying the instrument. In the last twenty years, I have really become a basic player on the BG, and feel I am even more so on the URB. There are times though that physical stiffness in the hands creep in, and I try and throw in a small fill to work it out. I am lucky enough these days to play with people who actually look for me to do something more than just the basics, so it works out well.
 
#20
Syncopation is a little dangerous in bluegrass because really bass is the heart beat of the music and any stuttering can sound like arrhythmia.

Slapping is different because the pulse is still there, but overlaid with another rhythm.

There are so many different ways and positions to play Root - Five that there's no excuse to be bored/boring.

Gene Libbea is my bass hero for his ability to change what he's playing without ever drawing attention to himself. The little turnarounds at the end of the chorus are fresh every time through and the way he'll play '3 3 4 4' to cover 'root root four four' is great too. Listen to the first verse of 'Boll Weevil' if you want an eye-opener.

Every time I listen I hear something new, and that rubs off on the band.

My favourite new bass player is Eric Thorin with 'Brother Mule'. Chops to burn but with a real feel for the musical idiom, he is expanding the role of the bass in bluegrass.
 

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