Bob Marley - Theory Question

[BaileyMan]

I just transcribed Hallelujah Time (from the album, Burnin'). Family Man's bass lines on that song are great, of course. Some phenomenal melodic phrasing that moves through the changes quite beautifully.

I looked at some published sheet music to help identify the chords being played throughout the song. Assuming the sheet music is accurate, the bass is often not landing on the root when the chord changes, but instead plays a tastefully selected chord tone followed by other tastefully selected chord and scale tones.

Is this what's actually happening in this tune? My ear's not trained enough to be able to identify the correct chords from the recording.

For example, in the first line, "Hear the children crying" the chords are written as C D G (and the vocal melody I think follows those notes). However, the bass goes from C down to A (when the chord changes to a D), back to C before passing through a D and ending on a G.

In my mind I'm thinking that second chord would be an A minor, with the D being a nice scale wise leading tone to get to the G. So, I guess the chords that are written aren't what I'd expect based on the bass line, and I'm wanting to better understand how the harmony and bass melody work together.

Your thoughts???

 

[Malcolm35]

As no one has answered; Root on one is not cast in stone.

Harmony happens when the notes in the treble clef (the tune) and the bass clef share some of the same notes. Point here is some of the same notes. If you follow the chords and use some of the chord's notes you will get harmony.

I use root on one because it is always safe, and the guys want to hear the root note first, but, if the song will allow it other chord notes could be used, i.e. each measure should share notes between the treble and bass clef.

 

[lz4005]

I just transcribed Hallelujah Time (from the album, Burnin'). Family Man's bass lines on that song are great, of course. Some phenomenal melodic phrasing that moves through the changes quite beautifully.

I looked at some published sheet music to help identify the chords being played throughout the song. Assuming the sheet music is accurate, the bass is often not landing on the root when the chord changes, but instead plays a tastefully selected chord tone followed by other tastefully selected chord and scale tones.

Is this what's actually happening in this tune? My ear's not trained enough to be able to identify the correct chords from the recording.

For example, in the first line, "Hear the children crying" the chords are written as C D G (and the vocal melody I think follows those notes). However, the bass goes from C down to A (when the chord changes to a D), back to C before passing through a D and ending on a G.

In my mind I'm thinking that second chord would be an A minor, with the D being a nice scale wise leading tone to get to the G. So, I guess the chords that are written aren't what I'd expect based on the bass line, and I'm wanting to better understand how the harmony and bass melody work together.

Your thoughts???

It's just inversions. Each of which could be written as a different, non inverted, chord name or as a slash chord, but shouldn't be.

The sheet music is telling the guitar player what to play and the bass player what to play. Taken together they're playing an inversion of the chord if the bass player is playing a chord tone that isn't the root.

 

[BaileyMan]

It's just inversions. Each of which could be written as a different, non inverted, chord name or as a slash chord, but shouldn't be.

The sheet music is telling the guitar player what to play and the bass player what to play. Taken together they're playing an inversion of the chord if the bass player is playing a chord tone that isn't the root.

Makes sense...

Again, from a theory standpoint, are there situations when it makes sense to play these kinds of inversions? Such as when going from a certain chord to some other certain chord, or if the piano is playing the root, it frees up the bass to play a different chord tone, or to achieve some specific dramatic effect?

I know in the end it comes down to what sounds good, but it's helpful for me to understand the function it serves beyond that as I think about my own compositions.

 

[lz4005]

Makes sense...

Again, from a theory standpoint, are there situations when it makes sense to play these kinds of inversions? Such as when going from a certain chord to some other certain chord, or if the piano is playing the root, it frees up the bass to play a different chord tone, or to achieve some specific dramatic effect?

I know in the end it comes down to what sounds good, but it's helpful for me to understand the function it serves beyond that as I think about my own compositions.

Someone more well versed in the academics of functional theory could explain it far better than I can.

But you're on the money with both 'make it sound good' and the idea that keys or even guitar playing a strong root can free up the bass to do other things.

Often I think of it as oppositional motion being preferable to parallel motion. In practical terms that means if the guitar is playing higher chords, I'll go lower to reinforce the root. If they're chugging away at the bottom, I may go higher and play more melodically.

 

[thabassmon]

Fans is great.
This sort of approach was recently discussed

Root with every chord change?

 

[Whousedtoplay]

the bass goes from C down to A (when the chord changes to a D), back to C before passing through a D and ending on a G.

The notes - C, A, C and D in the bass clearly defines the D7 chord.

It's Reggae.

P.S. Check Ed Friedland's book, "Reggae Bass" for more specific accents in Reggae bass lines.

 

[BaileyMan]

Fans is great.
This sort of approach was recently discussed

Root with every chord change?

Thanks for that link. I had seen it early on, but just the first few posts. There are some good insights in there a bit later on.

P.S. Check Ed Friedland's book, "Reggae Bass" for more specific accents in Reggae bass lines.

Thanks for the suggestion. I'll check it out. He's got some great books. I find I learn the most when I transcribe songs on my own. One of the best parts of learning to read music for me. Really helps me understand the style so that I can bring it in to my playing.

 

[Whousedtoplay]

I learn the most when I transcribe songs on my own.

Transcribing a bass-line is an excellent thing. From your questions about the bass lines in Reggae, I thought it would be a good idea for you to get some advise from others who have search and found the answers you are looking for, like accents in Reggae rhythm patterns, strong/weak beats, off-beats, etc...

 

[eJake]

I just transcribed Hallelujah Time (from the album, Burnin'). Family Man's bass lines on that song are great, of course. Some phenomenal melodic phrasing that moves through the changes quite beautifully.

I looked at some published sheet music to help identify the chords being played throughout the song. Assuming the sheet music is accurate, the bass is often not landing on the root when the chord changes, but instead plays a tastefully selected chord tone followed by other tastefully selected chord and scale tones.

Is this what's actually happening in this tune? My ear's not trained enough to be able to identify the correct chords from the recording.

For example, in the first line, "Hear the children crying" the chords are written as C D G (and the vocal melody I think follows those notes). However, the bass goes from C down to A (when the chord changes to a D), back to C before passing through a D and ending on a G.

In my mind I'm thinking that second chord would be an A minor, with the D being a nice scale wise leading tone to get to the G. So, I guess the chords that are written aren't what I'd expect based on the bass line, and I'm wanting to better understand how the harmony and bass melody work together.

Your thoughts???

Reggae at its roots is based on the I ii chord progression (ie: G to Am). With reggae bass relying heavily on triad chord tones, bass players use inversions to make their lines more melodic.

 

[Whousedtoplay]

Reggae at its roots is based on the I ii chord progression (ie: G to Am). With reggae bass relying heavily on triad chord tones, bass players use inversions to make their lines more melodic.

It's not just about chord tones. It's more about the accents in the Reggae bass line.
For the beginners: "Downbeat Reggae" and "Non Downbeat Reggae" .
1. Some bass lines don't always start on the root.
2. You don't always have to play on the downbeat. You can skip it.
3. Use rhythmic displacements, etc...

 

[Whousedtoplay]

Fans is great.
This sort of approach was recently discussed

Root with every chord change?

It's more like a "cacophonic lump-some-ness" of various music styles, including "FREE JAZZ".
Knowledge gain for a beginner = close to zero.

 

[bass12]

Thanks for that link. I had seen it early on, but just the first few posts. There are some good insights in there a bit later on.




Thanks for the suggestion. I'll check it out. He's got some great books. I find I learn the most when I transcribe songs on my own. One of the best parts of learning to read music for me. Really helps me understand the style so that I can bring it in to my playing.

With all due respect to Ed, I found that book to be kind of useless. You’ll get much more out of just listening to the music and transcribing a bit as you go along.

 

[Whousedtoplay]

With all due respect to Ed, I found that book to be kind of useless. You’ll get much more out of just listening to the music and transcribing a bit as you go along.

Transcribing is an extremely important thing, but it does not easily establish the foundation for a beginner musician.

 

[Whousedtoplay]

The OP correctly identified the bass notes in the question but without the notes’s places in the measure, without the notes’s lengths.

 

[Whousedtoplay]

The OP’s song is in C, but it starts with the G chord. When it moves to C in Verse, it creates a false sensation of the subdominant function, resolving back into G, but...
It is in C.

 

[thabassmon]

It's more like a "cacophonic lump-some-ness" of various music styles, including "FREE JAZZ".
Knowledge gain for a beginner = close to zero.

Maybe. A first day on the job beginner may have nothing to gain.

I think when the OP is talking about transcribing, phrasing and understanding the relationship between the melody and the bass.

Those sort of ideas aren't absolute beginner ideas.

And maybe beginners would benefit from the concept that there is more than just the root. I know I did when first noticing that Paul McCartney did it, then I noticed Sting did it, and many more.

The concept of the lowest note being another note that isn't the root note is not a new thing, nor is it free jazz. It is a melodic approach that allows the player to play smoother lines.

Just as there is validity in pedal tones, there is validity in changing the bass note to non root tones.

Like I said in the post on the thread I put the link up to take a cue from the most celebrated bass players from musical history. Family Man definitely fits that ideal.

 

[eJake]

It's not just about chord tones. It's more about the accents in the Reggae bass line.
For the beginners: "Downbeat Reggae" and "Non Downbeat Reggae" .
1. Some bass lines don't always start on the root.
2. You don't always have to play on the downbeat. You can skip it.
3. Use rhythmic displacements, etc...

***it is all about the chord tones when speaking of note choice.

 

[Whousedtoplay]

***it is all about the chord tones when speaking of note choice.

LOL.

Okay, it's time for me to get back to the Politics.

 

[Whousedtoplay]

Maybe. A first day on the job beginner may have nothing to gain.

I think when the OP is talking about transcribing, phrasing and understanding the relationship between the melody and the bass.

Those sort of ideas aren't absolute beginner ideas.

And maybe beginners would benefit from the concept that there is more than just the root. I know I did when first noticing that Paul McCartney did it, then I noticed Sting did it, and many more.

The concept of the lowest note being another note that isn't the root note is not a new thing, nor is it free jazz. It is a melodic approach that allows the player to play smoother lines.

Just as there is validity in pedal tones, there is validity in changing the bass note to non root tones.

Like I said in the post on the thread I put the link up to take a cue from the most celebrated bass players from musical history. Family Man definitely fits that ideal.

Once again, 1.) one should NOT(!) start mixing styles!
2.) When a composer creates - toils over ONE(!) chord, and writes it down, we have a bass player who MUST change the HARMONY! Okay.
3.) If I make up the most obnoxious sounding chord with all those +/- b/#/etc..., we will have SOMEONE playing the LOWEST NOTE!!!


Sorry, it's time to get back to the true arguing stuff - we have Super Tuesday, and leave all those smart musical issues to my colleagues from TB.