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Booking bands is not rocket surgery - rant
- Thread starter gln1955
- Start date
The reality is that running a business like a brewery is probably rather hectic, and the booking is likely a side job. Hence mistakes will occasionally be made. Just gotta let it roll off your back. I actually had a brewery cancel a gig in September cause they had a management meeting and the booker was told their music budget was gone.
It happens - especially when venues have multiple people managing bookings. It sucks that you didn't get word until day of- no chance to have accepted another gig.
My take is to let that slide once if it's a venue I generally want/like to play but I'd probably need more than a handshake to book another gig there. I don't work in the land of contracts either and I am surprised. I suspect all or most of our gigs are booked remotely (phone/text/email) so contracts would get cumbersome.
My take is to let that slide once if it's a venue I generally want/like to play but I'd probably need more than a handshake to book another gig there. I don't work in the land of contracts either and I am surprised. I suspect all or most of our gigs are booked remotely (phone/text/email) so contracts would get cumbersome.
Bars and breweries around here will simply not sign a contract and just hire the next band that asks for a night. They will laugh you out of the place and soft blackball you if you show up with a contract. They would be insulted.
I mostly run into this when more than one entity is booking for a given venue. Like if the owner and another employee both book gigs, watch out! The owner, through that unique hubris that only owners can have, will never check the proper calendar.
Even worse is if they hire an outside hooking agency, but still also do in-house bookings. The agency really has nothing to lose by double-booking dates, unless the stakeholder at the venue is truly committed and holds their feet to fire over double-bookings - like making the agency pay the band that got bumped.
And that would have to be in the contract between the venue and the booking agency.
I mostly run into this when more than one entity is booking for a given venue. Like if the owner and another employee both book gigs, watch out! The owner, through that unique hubris that only owners can have, will never check the proper calendar.
Even worse is if they hire an outside hooking agency, but still also do in-house bookings. The agency really has nothing to lose by double-booking dates, unless the stakeholder at the venue is truly committed and holds their feet to fire over double-bookings - like making the agency pay the band that got bumped.
And that would have to be in the contract between the venue and the booking agency.
Seems like there's always been a dichotomy between legit nightclubs and casual joints having occasional music. The former typically have talent buyers/bookers, stages, sound and lights, and appropriate staffing for live music events. The latter have like an assistant bar manager trying to cover bartender shifts and booking bands on the side, and the "stage" is an area that has to be cleared of tables or empty kegs or something. And of course there is no PA, much less acoustic treatment.
IME the legit nightclubs >>>>>> casual joints in just about every way.
IME the legit nightclubs >>>>>> casual joints in just about every way.
I'm not a lawyer, but I've watched Peoples's Court a bunch. It seems like if you don't have a contract but you do have some documentation, even if it's just a text or email, you can prove you were in the right and demand whatever paltry sum they were going to pay you. Having said that, I guess it really depends on how they treat you overall. Did they offer to do better, or were they just dickish?
mistakes and sloppiness can still happen --- but with a contract = you get paid! contracts are always appropriate, IME/IMO. they can be very simple: dates/times, money.
i play a couple of places without a contract (it's OK with me, i wouldn't change a thing), but: when things go sideways and we're left without recourse = we accept it --- we made the decision to play without a K: we are responsible for the outcome and its impact on us! it's only happened a couple of times and we wanted to continue with a venue that's good for us.
if you play without one (e.g., bars) = no big deal if you're big enough to accept the consequences (e.g., the OP). i'd play without one if i knew/trusted the other party, but i'd still have to accept disappointment, maybe without pay, when things didn't/don't go according to plan.
texts and emails may "codify" an agreement without a formal contract. i've used emails to discuss all the details/parameters and then 'summed up' with a final email and stated: "this is the agreement we've come to --- your acceptance means that we can both move forward on the date/event, thanks." responses are always positive: "great, we're excited, etc....."
just this summer i 'confronted' a buyer with their own email 'agreement' after a misunderstanding (which had to do with access and payment) and they acquiesced after seeing their own previous communication(s).
yes, several times (a few times the threat was there and the venue 'relented'). in all but a couple of cases, we continued to play the venue --- got raises when it was time, yada yada --- and business continued as expected. and at least two of the venues i'm referencing began using their own simple contracts so they could spell out their rules/expectations!
i've never lost a small claims court 'battle' --- because i had a contract! IME, the more simple a contract is, the easier it is to enforce in small claims.
Update: BL talked to the brewery owner this morning and he said the place was dead last night. The food truck that was scheduled double-booked for the second time this year and left them without that draw. The other band apparently wasn't keeping folks around either.
Karma.
Karma.
Yes, an email or text thread should be construed as a written contract.
Yep. Unfortunately, casual joints with a casual attitude towards live-music are more the rule than exception here too.
There is the occasional exception - there's a seafood place with an attached dive bar that, long ago, invested promotion $$ in the local community radio, and runs THE all-day, multiple-band Fat Tuesday event each year. They host live music each Thursday, with an invitational jam hosted by a popular local BL each Sunday. They're a great place to play, as the crowd energy is off the chart, the ownership and management truly respect musicians, and their above-average pay scale reflects that. Yet bands have to bring their own sound & lights, and tables have to be cleared. Still no one complains who plays there.
And they're an exception in one other way - They have two guys passing muster on booking the bands and they don't double book. Almost unheard of elsewhere, IME.
There's another room here that didn't have house sound and lights where I used to book my own band when I was doing that - young-person-with-money venue. Never double booked, always appreciative & happy to pay us, fun gig.
As a litigator, I have learned that there are no limits to mankind's ability to complicate that which is simple and obscure that which is clear.
Having handled hundreds of small claims matters, it's easier than anybody would ever imagine. You don't remotely need a lawyer in the majority of cases. But, the risk is that the band places their reputation and ability to book future shows with *any* area bars in jeopardy, even if the band is perfectly, legally in the right. Word of mouth travels fast.
Having handled hundreds of small claims matters, it's easier than anybody would ever imagine. You don't remotely need a lawyer in the majority of cases. But, the risk is that the band places their reputation and ability to book future shows with *any* area bars in jeopardy, even if the band is perfectly, legally in the right. Word of mouth travels fast.
Ric5
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- Jan 29, 2008
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Booking bands is not rocket surgery - rant
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Yeah, that's a "we're done here" comment, seeing as how the owner made the mistake by his own admission.
Of course, this is assuming you asked for payment. Did you?
If so, and he refused, I'd run, not walk, from ever working with this numb-nuts again. And I'd put the word out with other BL's & musicians so they can avoid getting burned there if they're so inclined.
Like Two Fingers mentioned, always do contracts it keeps venues on the up-and-up. They can’t pull the double-booking nonsense, otherwise they pay dearly for it.
Right before my family moved to Florida a few months back from Missouri, my old duo was booked at this newly renovated dive bar. I liked the place before, but they really wanted to get more clientele in the door after dealing with shutdown nonsense.
They double-booked us two times out of three. Owner huffed and puffed about it. It was her manager’s fault. Not ours. It’s 2022. No reason this should ever happen. She basically paid for us to arrive, see another band setting up, receive our money. Both times we texted our “home” bar and ended up playing there. We got to see different crowds at our normal place and getting paid double.
Contracts are your friend. Use them!
Contracts are fine...cuts both ways of course.
You have to work out if the venue wants to bother with them, and how much is it worth to make a fight of it.
Chances are you'll never work that place again, get a rep for your stance as well, so for $100 per man, who really cares.
Doesnt mean you like it...but what is it really worth.
The most I'd do is the let my friends know who you are dealing with..
You have to work out if the venue wants to bother with them, and how much is it worth to make a fight of it.
Chances are you'll never work that place again, get a rep for your stance as well, so for $100 per man, who really cares.
Doesnt mean you like it...but what is it really worth.
The most I'd do is the let my friends know who you are dealing with..
Relative bargaining power (or lack thereof). A hard fact of life to live with sometimes.
If your band is thought of as "just another band" then probably the venue has the power and you need to swallow and be diplomatic.
If your band regularly fills venues to overflowing and the venue's bar totals go off the chart when you play, then you might have enough position to tell this venue to pay up a cancellation fee or forget about future bookings.
If your band is thought of as "just another band" then probably the venue has the power and you need to swallow and be diplomatic.
If your band regularly fills venues to overflowing and the venue's bar totals go off the chart when you play, then you might have enough position to tell this venue to pay up a cancellation fee or forget about future bookings.
Still though, a contract even with friends is not a bad idea, As in this case, it's easy to get busy and forget or in this case, they could have been up front and told you these was in contention if the other band doesn't show. Not you have the gig! (as long as the other band doesn't show) Thats not an agreement, a handshake or otherwise.
CYOA!
Contract next time, no matter who.
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