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Boomy Lows, Inaudible Highs

Ox Boris

Ox Boris

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Nov 23, 2015
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#1
We played an open air gig, but the stage was a gazebo. It exaggerated an issue that I've been concerned about for a while. Everything below A had a nice thick boomy report, which isn't a problem, except that it threw the non-existent highs into sharp relief.

I'm talking mainly about on-stage sound that I was hearing, the problem was greatly reduced off-stage, though still detectable. I think some compression might be in order, something I've avoided because, despite reading up, I don't really understand nor know how to use it; hence my not really knowing if that's the issue here.

I didn't have any time to fiddle with it, but I'll be playing there again. Any tips greatly appreciated.

Some details:
PF410+115+PF500 head with everything at 12 O'clock, including volume and gain (but compression on zero)
Stand-in singer guy (his PA) had his acoustic guitar through the PA, including a sub that seemed to be very boomy in itself. He does solo work, so having it turned up is his "bass".
+ 1 electric guitarist + drummer
Garden bar holding about 300 people and the gazebo looks like this:
[Invalid or Expired Link Removed]
 
#2
Can the sub, uncouple your amps from the floor by using the wheels or putting them up on something and cut the bass frequencies in the monitor/s &/or PA. That's where I'd start. Then I'd take a listen to the sound in front of the stage with an RTA (real time analyzer) app on my phone just for good measure. I use a wireless with my bass but often a long cord o a pedal works too to get you in front of the stage. Just my 2 cents. YMMV
Btw- I played a Halloween gig in a gazebo just like that and had the same sound difficulties. Fortunately my guitar player uses a fairly small pa on stands. And I had my combo amp on he wheels. Still had to o cut the bottom a bit.
 
#3
Thanks.

Is getting the cabs off the floor a thing? I've avoided putting the wheels on because it feels like I'll be bolting 4 rattly things to my rig. I'll get an RTA app, what does it do? Actually, can that question, what should I be looking for on it? I remember that I did cut the Bass freq a touch, but it didn't seem to do much (not that I was able to test it well at all).
 
#4
Gazebo floor raised or on slab? If hollow then, yes there a e devices to isolate the cab from the hollow floor. Gardening kneeling pads are the cheapest and work well enough to figure out of that's the problem. If slab, then more possible reflections from some part of the structure / maybe set up differently?
 
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#5
Ox Boris said:
Thanks.

Is getting the cabs off the floor a thing? I've avoided putting the wheels on because it feels like I'll be bolting 4 rattly things to my rig. I'll get an RTA app, what does it do? Actually, can that question, what should I be looking for on it? I remember that I did cut the Bass freq a touch, but it didn't seem to do much (not that I was able to test it well at all).
Click to expand...

Is it a "thing"? Yes, uncoupling bass reproduction cabinets from a hollow stage is a thing.

Is that sub on the stage behind the mics?
 
#6
Ox Boris said:
Thanks.

Is getting the cabs off the floor a thing? I've avoided putting the wheels on because it feels like I'll be bolting 4 rattly things to my rig. I'll get an RTA app, what does it do? Actually, can that question, what should I be looking for on it? I remember that I did cut the Bass freq a touch, but it didn't seem to do much (not that I was able to test it well at all).
Click to expand...
The wheels only rattle when you're transporting your rig. Lol. Seriously. When you are playing they're not a problem. An RTA app will give you a visual of which frequencies are the loudest/softest. I attached a picture showing a boomy midrange around 2k. For a flatter response vs. a boomy mid cut around that frequency. An RTA would allow you to see and verify what your ears are hearing. Hope this helps.
 

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#9
If there is a wodden hollow floor you will have a deep boom sound, lifting the cabinet could solve the problem, either leaving the wheels or using an Auralex riser usually will solve the problem. Moving the cabinet to a 45 degree angle or other position can resolve the problem. Sometimes the low frequencies bounce in a spot that creates that boomy unpleasant frequency, the use of your EQ in your amp is a great help. Perhaps rolling the bass frequencies on your bass a little bit can help, but mainly is the position of the cabinet in that particular room. Next time, raise your cabinet from the floor, move it around, angle it, play with your EQ etc. And try to get the bass possible sound that will cut thru the mix. A smart thing to do will be to have monitors if your mains are at the front.
 
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#12
Jeff Bonny said:
An adjustable high pass filter pedal like the Broughton is a very simple and effective way of dealing with boomy lows in a variety of different sounding rooms. And getting rid of that unwanted low end crud might well make the highs you can't hear very well now more audible without trying to boost anything.
Click to expand...

IMG_5096.JPG


Two peas in a pod!!! ;)
 
#14
While I have no problem with this, and I do it all the time, I'm certain someone is going to come along and tell you it's the shorts that caused it. "No matter how dang hot it is out, you really shouldn't ever have 3 guys on a stage in shorts. All highs go up the pants and it's just boom boom boom." That's what they're gonna say. Wait and see.
 
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#15
Joe Nerve said:
While I have no problem with this, and I do it all the time, I'm certain someone is going to come along and tell you it's the shorts that caused it. "No matter how dang hot it is out, you really shouldn't ever have 3 guys on a stage in shorts. All highs go up the pants and it's just boom boom boom." That's what they're gonna say. Wait and see.
Click to expand...

It is fortunate, two days into this thread, that we have preemptively condemned the fashion police that are certainly circling this thread like vultures in long pants.

;)
 
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#17
Ox Boris said:
Then there's the "Ultra Low" button which I've only just noticed, must've been accidentally pressed and active for the entire gig.
Honestly, what a pillock.
Oh, well. Won't be making that mistake again...
Click to expand...
I used the ultra low button on an Ampeg at a recent rehearsal, sounded great to me when i was playing however when i played back the recording of the rehearsal it sounded like boomy flabby mud, should have probably left the bass flat and boosted the mids and highs
 
#18
Concrete floors don't boom.

Rooms boom when they resonate between 80 and 200hz. From what you are saying your gazebo may be booming but I doubt it.

Most often it's not actually the bass guitar that is the culprit. Drums and acoustic guitars do a lot of resonating. Even more with a sub on the stage. Knock that chit off.

Lifting your cab won't do diddly until it's 3ft off the concrete. Don't listen to the seppos with theIr plywood and matchstick stages. Unplug the bottom cab and it turns into a bass trap. By the looks of it your drummer isn't mic' aside from the kick so you won't miss loudness.

Indoors you Rta the room or ring it out. Rooms boom. Don't worry about what EQ needs to be added to the PA to ring out the room. It is what it is.

Dollars to donuts you don't need the blimmin sub at all.

Highpass everything that isn't a kickdrum or bass guitar at 100hz or higher. See if muting the kickdrum mutes out the boom.. Gate the kickdrum mic or add a mess of stuffing.

No Mr guitar we don't need your LF to sound like a rock band.

Found it yet?
 
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#19
I bet moving those subs off the stage would have made a huge difference.
Also, acoustic guitarists can be a pain. feedback, way too much low frequency, loud in the monitors.


What do they sing for christmas carols in the southern hemisphere? Ours all revolve around snow.
 

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