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Boost, or no boost? Am I not pushing my amp hard enough?

project_c

project_c

May 8, 2008
1,592
1,870
London, UK
#1
Not sure if this should go in Amps or Effects, but perhaps makes more sense to post it here. I've been using a Ditto+ looper and exporting my loops to my Mac, and whilst looking at the files I noticed that the signal I'm sending to my amp is generally very very low. I usually play passive basses straight to the amp, and I know I can use the gain on the amp to boost my signal, but would it make sense to send a healthier signal to the amp to begin with? Should I be using a booster pedal to push the amp a little harder? Or do people usually just rely on the gain control on the amp?

(And am I just looking for an excuse to buy a boost pedal?)
 
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#2
project_c said:
Not sure if this should go in Amps or Effects, but perhaps makes more sense to post it here. I've been using a Ditto+ looper and exporting my loops to my Mac, and whilst looking at the files I noticed that the signal I'm sending to my amp is generally very very low. I usually play passive basses straight to the amp, and I know I can use the gain on the amp to boost my signal, but would it make sense to send a healthier signal to the amp to begin with? Should I be using a booster pedal to push the amp a little harder? Or do people usually just rely on the gain control on the amp?

(And am I just looking for an excuse to buy a boost pedal?)
Click to expand...

I have no idea what a Ditto+ looper is (well I get the concept but know nothing about the product)

Is the input at instrument level or line level. If you are sending a passive bass into a line level device, yes the level will be extremely low.

If you are coming out of the say preamp out or DI out of the amp, while plugged into the actual amp, well just turn the gain/output up on the amp.

Analogeezer
 
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#3
The TC Electronic Ditto+ has a level control, which sets the output level. What happens if you increase it?
How strong is your bass signal when directly connected to the amp, leaving the pedal out?
I think this is game to put in the Effects section.
 
#7
#8
abarson said:
The TC Electronic Ditto+ has a level control, which sets the output level. What happens if you increase it?
How strong is your bass signal when directly connected to the amp, leaving the pedal out?
I think this is game to put in the Effects section.
Click to expand...

I can max the volume on the looper and the amp still doesn’t break up (maybe at high volume but in general use it’s fine). I get a nice tone generally, but I just wonder if I should be hitting that amp just a little harder. The signal I am transferring from my looper to my Mac is exactly the same level as the signal going to the amp, it’s literally a capture of the signal coming out of my bass before it reaches the amp.
 
#9
seamonkey said:
Depends on if your set up is noisy.
You should raise the signal to be well above the noise-floor but not too high where you get unwanted distortion.
Click to expand...

I have no issues with noise, it’s just the bass straight into the amp, but when I look at the audio file, the waveform is super low, barely visible. Not sure if it matters or not, but it feels like it could do with a little boost or gain before it arrives at the amp.
 
#10
project_c said:
It’s a Genz Benz Shuttle, with a Fender Precision going into it. But the question applies to any passive bass going into any amp really.
Click to expand...

Thanks for clarifying. I only ask because “amplifier” doesn’t mean the same thing to all of us. For most guitar and keyboard players, it means something like your Shuttle, which is actually a preamp and amplifier in one package. To pro-audio types, it’s something like a Crown XLS. I don’t think there’s a power amp on the world that will work with a direct signal from a passive guitar – that’s why the preamp is there, to boost the guitar signal to a level the amplifier can use.

That said, your two questions (or issues if you prefer) have nothing to do with each other. They are completely separate. I assume that any bass guitar system (like your Shuttle) will work fine with any signal it gets from a passive bass. After all, that’s what they’re designed for. No input boosters are necessary.

The file you’re sending your computer from the bass, that’s a different story. That should be adjusted by the software program or interface. I’ve had good luck signal boosting low-level signals in Audacity with no issues at all.

Regards,
Wayne A. Pflughaupt

Pedulla Club #45 Unique Arrangements of Hymns, P&W Standards, and Original Tunes
Administrator, Tobias Club #133
Administrator, Fretless Club #943
Big Cabs Club #23
My Basses
My Rig: Stage and FOH Friendly
Pedulla Club #45
 
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#11
A boost pedal is a gain stage. The first stage (or two) in your amplifier is a gain stage. If there's enough gain for you by turning up the volume control on your amp, a boost pedal is superfluous, unless you want to change gain via a footswitch, or if other pedals need a bigger signal to give you a better signal to noise. If you use a boost pedal for that last reason, it needs to be one with very low noise (which disqualifies a lot of boost pedals, unfortunately)

Short, mostly complete answer: Loud enough is loud enough. Boost helps....but only if it isn't already loud enough.
 
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#12
project_c said:
I have no issues with noise, it’s just the bass straight into the amp, but when I look at the audio file, the waveform is super low, barely visible.
Click to expand...
Your amp has enough gain to use that low signal, all a boost pedal will mean is your amps gain knob will be set lower.
The reason the waveform is so small is because that is designed to also work with much larger signals at line level or from an effects loop without being to big and distorting.
 
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#13
How are you "exporting" the loops into your Mac? Does the output of the looper go into some sort of audio interface? If you are sending -10dB from the looper to an interface that takes +4, well that's your answer right there.

I am confused because it sounds like you are going through this looper INTO your amp, but then you say you "export" them into the Mac from the looper. "Export" implies you are transferring them digitally from the looper.

So what device is the Mac seeing the output from?

Analogeezer

p.s. A list of your signal path (like a numbered list in order of the signal) would be helpful
 
#14
#16
agedhorse said:
I am confused by the question.

how is the signal getting into and out of each piece of gear?
Click to expand...
I'm going to be presumptuous and say the bass -> looper -> amp.
The looper stores the loop digitally and can upload that as a wav or similar via USB to a computer.
The looper is conservatively designed to prevent clipping and therefore the bass signal tends to only use a small portion of full range in these wav files.
 
#19
project_c said:
Not sure if this should go in Amps or Effects, but perhaps makes more sense to post it here. I've been using a Ditto+ looper and exporting my loops to my Mac, and whilst looking at the files I noticed that the signal I'm sending to my amp is generally very very low. I usually play passive basses straight to the amp, and I know I can use the gain on the amp to boost my signal, but would it make sense to send a healthier signal to the amp to begin with? Should I be using a booster pedal to push the amp a little harder? Or do people usually just rely on the gain control on the amp?

(And am I just looking for an excuse to buy a boost pedal?)
Click to expand...

Gas. Only one cure. More gear.
 
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#20
WayneP said:
The looper has a USB connection to send signal to the computer, or to load loops from the computer to the looper. It comes with a software program to accomplish all that

Regards,
Wayne A. Pflughaupt

Pedulla Club #45 Unique Arrangements of Hymns, P&W Standards, and Original Tunes
Administrator, Tobias Club #133
Administrator, Fretless Club #943
Big Cabs Club #23
My Basses
My Rig: Stage and FOH Friendly
Pedulla Club #45
Click to expand...

agedhorse said:
I am confused by the question.

how is the signal getting into and out of each piece of gear?
Click to expand...

Sorry for the confusion, the latest version of the Ditto looper is the Ditto Plus, which has a USB port and it essentially behaves like a USB memory stick. It stores your loops and you can transfer stuff to and from your computer via USB. There is no variable input level on it, just an output level.

My signal path is just bass - looper - amp, it’s a very simple path. The looper connects to the Mac via USB but not in real time, it stores your loops as .wav files.
 

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