Boost, or no boost? Am I not pushing my amp hard enough?

[Dave W]

I used to run a Barbershop + simple EQ into my Shuttles with great results. The Barbershop is a very transparent and touch sensitive light OD if you're not familiar with it. It can be set so it's clean until you dig into it.

Do you own any other pedals? You don't necessarily need a boost, just something that can give you a boosted signal like an OD, comp, etc. I'd say try one before you go and get something else that can essentially do the same job. Different pedals will certainly work better than others.

If you get to the point where you definitely want something I'd head into the Effects forum and start looking around.

 

[project_c]

I used to run a Barbershop + simple EQ into my Shuttles with great results. The Barbershop is a very transparent and touch sensitive light OD if you're not familiar with it. It can be set so it's clean until you dig into it.

Do you own any other pedals? You don't necessarily need a boost, just something that can give you a boosted signal like an OD, comp, etc. I'd say try one before you go and get something else that can essentially do the same job. Different pedals will certainly work better than others.

If you get to the point where you definitely want something I'd head into the Effects forum and start looking around.

Thanks for the advice. I have a tiny pedalboard, this is how it’s set up:

bass - Polytune 3 - Boss LMB3 (rarely use this but I can definitely use it to boost the signal) - Broughton Fliptop (love this, can also use to boost. I currently have it set to match the dry signal) - Ditto Plus - Genz Shuttle.

I guess if a clean boost won’t be much of an improvement on the above there may be no point, although I’m quite tempted to look into things like the Phat Phuk B which add a little character as well as a boost to the signal.

 

[brianrost]

Looking at the waveform and thinking it's low doesn't mean it actually is low. Low compared to what? The maximum amplitude before digital clipping occurs in the looper? Low compared to some other bass?

You wrote you think you should be hitting the amp harder. Why is that? Try this:

1. Plug bass into amp, no pedals in between.

2. Dime the volume knobs on the bass, if passive dime the tone knob. If active, set the knobs for no boost or cut.

3. Mess around with the amp gain control and watch the clip lights if the amp has them.

OK, is there something wrong with the sound you are getting?

Now insert only the looper between bass and amp. Is it louder, quieter or the same? As long as it's not quieter even after tweaking any in/out level controls then you have no problem.

 

[Mushroo]

The output of the USB is different level than the output of the 1/4. Looking at the waveform on your Mac's screen, doesn't tell you the input sensitivity of your amp. You're comparing apples and oranges. Conceptually, how would your Mac have any way of "knowing" whether or not you are overdriving the input of your Genz Benz?

I think what the data on your Mac screen is really showing you, is that you aren't anywhere near "clipping" your Ditto (running out of headroom). And that's a good thing! You don't ever want to clip a digital effect in your signal chain; it's a really ugly sound!

 

[BluesWalker]

Have you raising the pickups is they are closer to the strings? That will increase bass output.

 

[Analogeezer]

The looper has a USB connection to send signal to the computer, or to load loops from the computer to the looper. It comes with a software program to accomplish all that

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Well if you are playing your bass into the looper, then the looper goes into the amp; BUT transferring the looper files from the device.....well the amp has no role in the level the looper files are. You are just using the amp to monitor your playing.

Kinda crazy there is no input or drive control on the pedal, another reason why I am not a big fan of pedals, not enough control with a lot of them.

Try taking the preamp out of the amp and monitor the output of the looper through your playback system.

That might give you more level into the looper since it does not have an input gain control.

Analogeezer

 

[magyk8ball]

Looking at the waveform and not seeing much visually doesnt mean all that much. If it sounds fine as a looper with your amp, its probably working as expected. Your amp is amplifying it to the volume it needs to be outside of the looper itself, adding a boost or other pedal to the front will have the looper essentially record you with that effect.

Inside an app you can ‘Normalize’ the audio so the wav file is louder, and looks more visually like you think it should. Most digital audio is not ‘printed’ in the red, you wouldnt really want to boost your looper too much as it would clip & probably not sound good at all (but the wavform would look louder).

 

[agedhorse]

This explains why I was confused, the amp plays no role in the digital levels of the looper.

Do you know what the rated input level of the looper device is, and what the maximum input level is?

 

[BobDeRosa]

Not sure if this should go in Amps or Effects, but perhaps makes more sense to post it here. I've been using a Ditto+ looper and exporting my loops to my Mac, and whilst looking at the files I noticed that the signal I'm sending to my amp is generally very very low. I usually play passive basses straight to the amp, and I know I can use the gain on the amp to boost my signal, but would it make sense to send a healthier signal to the amp to begin with? Should I be using a booster pedal to push the amp a little harder? Or do people usually just rely on the gain control on the amp?

(And am I just looking for an excuse to buy a boost pedal?)

Sure you have it set up for passive? No -10db cut switch or separate input jacks for passive and active?

 

[jdh3000]

Get one and try it... The tc mini spark is pretty cheap used, try it and flip it if it doesn't help...or keep it in case you need it.

I usually push to before a red light clip... If you don't have a light, your ear will tell you.

Use your gain knob on the amp to attenuate.

 

[silky smoove]

If you're concerned with the level once it's on your computer you can easily throw it into a DAW and see what the highest peaks translate to on the built-in dbfs meters. If it's a 24-bit file you're theoretically 144db above the noise floor at 0dbfs, although in practice it'll be a bit less than that. Still, even a signal coming in at -18dbfs is WAY above the noise floor of a 24-bit file. If it's only recording a 16-bit file that's still 96db above the noise floor at 0dbfs, so there again a -18dbfs signal is no problem at all. So, with that said; What are the peaks measuring once they're in your computer?

 

[Standalone]

Turn the gain up on the amp. See how you like it.

Also adjust the Ditto plus. Try both of those before messing with a boost.

A passive P can be plenty hot.

 

[Ric5]

Not sure if this should go in Amps or Effects, but perhaps makes more sense to post it here. I've been using a Ditto+ looper and exporting my loops to my Mac, and whilst looking at the files I noticed that the signal I'm sending to my amp is generally very very low. I usually play passive basses straight to the amp, and I know I can use the gain on the amp to boost my signal, but would it make sense to send a healthier signal to the amp to begin with? Should I be using a booster pedal to push the amp a little harder? Or do people usually just rely on the gain control on the amp?

(And am I just looking for an excuse to buy a boost pedal?)

get a bass EQ pedal and then you have a boost and as a bonus you get the eq section.

I do this because some of my basses are hotter than others, and with the eq and the volume control I can make them more equal.

 

[project_c]

Get one and try it... The tc mini spark is pretty cheap used, try it and flip it if it doesn't help...or keep it in case you need it.

I usually push to before a red light clip... If you don't have a light, your ear will tell you.

Use your gain knob on the amp to attenuate.

Makes sense, and this was the main point of my question - is the amp’s ‘optimum tone’ achieved, and is the amp at its best / most responsive when pushed to just before clipping? And if so, is the gain on a solid state amp doing the exact same job as a clean boost? Is it all a matter of preference or should we always be boosting until just before we hit that that clip light?

 

[6thplanet]

Is there any volume difference between your bass into the amplifier and your bass into the looper into the amplifier if no controls are adjusted on the amplifier?

 

[jdh3000]

Makes sense, and this was the main point of my question - is the amp’s ‘optimum tone’ achieved, and is the amp at its best / most responsive when pushed to just before clipping? And if so, is the gain on a solid state amp doing the exact same job as a clean boost? Is it all a matter of preference or should we always be boosting until just before we hit that that clip light?

That should be the case, however some amps display clipping earlier than others. Some the breakup starts to occur there while with others it's a little later.

I never have to run my gain real high because my pedals are pretty hot; in fact I can afford to pull the gain back a bit because of the preamps I use.

The only thing I'd be concerned about is if you cannot make your amp clip... If you max out the gain and get nothing, you have either a very weak pickup or the preamp on your amp is not working as it should.

Take your bass to a music store and play through a few of their amps. You sould be able to get them to clip a little... That will tell you if it's your amp or bass.