BOSS GM-800 Synthesizer

[pjmuck]

Intriguing, to say the least, but I have several questions. I've been a guitar/bass synth user for over 15 years now and still use my GK3B-equipped Carvin with a Roland GR-33, so I know what I want/expect from a guitar synth.

1: Latency and tracking. I really need to see how it responds to lower bass frequency notes/strings because pitch to midi technology has always been pretty horrendous unless you're playing in the upper register. All of these Boss SY type units don't rely on a GK PUP, you can go straight in with a 1/4", so they track fine and I suspect a lot of the on board sounds of the GM-800 are based around that, but once you require GK-specific sounds (i.e. pianos, strings, traditional sampled instruments), good luck. I have always gotten around the latency issue as best I could by stringing my GK-dedicated bass with piccolo strings.

2. I don't like the new GK5 PUP. Other than a single TRS input, I see no on board volume control, no 3 way switch: GK-Bass-Mix, nor S1/S2 switches like on the previous GK3B PUP. Having that on board control was very important for me, as I always swept volumes in and out and blended signals as needed.

3. Backwards compatibility. Apparently they are offering two different GKC-AD/DA adapter converter boxes for those of us who already own a 13 pin piezo instrument or GK-equipped one to either use the GM-800 with 13 pin instruments or control older 13 pin processors (like my GR-33). That might be how you'd reclaim the missing functionality the GK3B had I mentioned above that the GK5 PUP doesn't have, but that'll set you back another $199 per adapter box. And then it begs the question: do you lose any improved tracking and latency by using the converter, and will it respond the way the old GK3B did (i.e. will your S1/S2 switches work to change patches, will your volume knob work, etc).

 

[mikewalker]

I'm not a big fan of Roland magnetic hex pickups. I've had the best results with piezo (ghost hexpander for example). I recently acquired the latest Fishman magnetic midi pup and its latency isn't that great. I had a Lightwave bass (that was magnificent in every way!) but I never tried one with their 13-pin midi option... i suspect it could be really good though

 

[ChubbyJerk]

Which video? I missed that one

Right around 7:28. I'm away for the weekend and only have a phone, small screen, hard to see details... definitely headless, fanned fret. Looks like a 6 string? Full body shot looks like Ibanez ehb1506 to me.

 

[ashtray]

 

[Krisfield]

Here's some Sound Pack examples available through Roland Cloud.


More Sounds-
Roland - SDZ034 Analog Bass | Sound Pack


More Sounds-
Roland - SDZ050 Digital Bass | Sound Pack


More Sounds-
Roland - SDZ062 Communication Bass | Sound Pack

 

[Thegreatzambini]

Damn boss has been churning them out lately ,they just released a new ME 90 for guitar… I really want them to release the same but for bass as it’s not one of those menu, app-based pedals but everything is right there via knobs

 

[Tosh]

Intriguing, to say the least, but I have several questions. ....

1: Latency and tracking. I really need to see how it responds to lower bass frequency notes/strings because pitch to midi technology has always been pretty horrendous unless you're playing in the upper register. All of these Boss SY type units don't rely on a GK PUP, you can go straight in with a 1/4", so they track fine and I suspect a lot of the on board sounds of the GM-800 are based around that, but once you require GK-specific sounds (i.e. pianos, strings, traditional sampled instruments), good luck. I have always gotten around the latency issue as best I could by stringing my GK-dedicated bass with piccolo strings.

I expect latency is still a problem with low notes. Longer wavelengths take more time to complete a measurable cycle; this can't be changed.

2. I don't like the new GK5 PUP. Other than a single TRS input, I see no on board volume control, no 3 way switch: GK-Bass-Mix, nor S1/S2 switches like on the previous GK3B PUP. Having that on board control was very important for me, as I always swept volumes in and out and blended signals as needed.

The GK3B is an analog device and the GK5B is digital. The digital pup should provide better tracking than the analog one, but for those who use piezo or optical pickups today, the GK5B might not be an improvement.

3. Backwards compatibility. Apparently they are offering two different GKC-AD/DA adapter converter boxes for those of us who already own a 13 pin piezo instrument or GK-equipped one to either use the GM-800 with 13 pin instruments or control older 13 pin processors (like my GR-33). That might be how you'd reclaim the missing functionality the GK3B had I mentioned above that the GK5 PUP doesn't have, but that'll set you back another $199 per adapter box. And then it begs the question: do you lose any improved tracking and latency by using the converter, and will it respond the way the old GK3B did (i.e. will your S1/S2 switches work to change patches, will your volume knob work, etc).

The AD converter would be my choice. It should not add any latency compared to using a GR-55 (or in my case, a GI-20) connected to a GK 13pin system (mine are a Willcox Lightwave and a Godin A4 Ultra SA). The GM-800 accepts a digital signal (A/D conversion performed by the GK5 pickup), and the GR-55 accepts an analog signal (A/D conversion performed by the GR-55).

I don't know if the converter will transmit the S1/S2 signals, or whether a volume control signal would be passed to the synth. I saw in the video that in order to hear the sound of the standard pickups, a separate output cable was needed.

 

[jimfist]

Right around 7:28. I'm away for the weekend and only have a phone, small screen, hard to see details... definitely headless, fanned fret. Looks like a 6 string? Full body shot looks like Ibanez ehb1506 to me.

Yeah. Tracking bass on a lot of synth devices works great as long as you stay in traditional guitar note range frequencies, and don't go down to the lowest notes. That's where the rubber meets the road. I do like this synth, though. Sounds great.

 

[gumtown]

I expect latency is still a problem with low notes. Longer wavelengths take more time to complete a measurable cycle; this can't be changed.



The GK3B is an analog device and the GK5B is digital. The digital pup should provide better tracking than the analog one, but for those who use piezo or optical pickups today, the GK5B might not be an improvement.



The AD converter would be my choice. It should not add any latency compared to using a GR-55 (or in my case, a GI-20) connected to a GK 13pin system (mine are a Willcox Lightwave and a Godin A4 Ultra SA). The GM-800 accepts a digital signal (A/D conversion performed by the GK5 pickup), and the GR-55 accepts an analog signal (A/D conversion performed by the GR-55).

I don't know if the converter will transmit the S1/S2 signals, or whether a volume control signal would be passed to the synth. I saw in the video that in order to hear the sound of the standard pickups, a separate output cable was needed.

Looking in the Tone Studio editor for the GM-800, I see assignable control options for GK-Vol and S1/S2.
I am hoping one day for an internal GK-kit-5B with those controls returned back, as well as insertion of the normal pickups signal too.

I saw in the Alex Hutchens third and personal video demo, in the comments section, he mentions the GM-800 is the first in a new series of devices based on the serial GK.
So maybe a SY-1000 type replacement in the same compact format could be on the horizon.

 

[Les Fret]

Wonder if it would work on a multiscale 6 string. I suspect not, or rather, not on every string.

it says in the Anderson video you can use it on 4,5 and 6 string bass.

The interviewer is fairly annoying. Interrupting each time and saying wow after everything.

 

[Les Fret]

Seems like a pretty big commitment

I think I’ll stick with my C4 and Bass Synth Wah lol

It’s a totally different product. C4 is mono for one thing. The Boss can do 100 times more. But it’s not for everyone.

 

[rsint]

Why don't they integrate this with a wireless unit? Now you have to run a cable eventhough most players will have been running around without wires for years now.

 

[gumtown]

Wonder if it would work on a multiscale 6 string. I suspect not, or rather, not on every string.

It will if you switch off "chromatic" in the settings, Alex uses a fanned fret bass in the video at this point in time

 

[sunbeast]

I expect latency is still a problem with low notes. Longer wavelengths take more time to complete a measurable cycle; this can't be changed.



The GK3B is an analog device and the GK5B is digital. The digital pup should provide better tracking than the analog one, but for those who use piezo or optical pickups today, the GK5B might not be an improvement.

The GK5/B use the same actual pickup guts as the GK-3/B from what I’ve seen, the AD conversion is just happening in the pickup unit instead of in the pedal as it did in the SY-1000/GR-55/etc. The GK-3s had internal preamps to drive the distance between pickup and pedal while the GK-5s are driving by converting the signal to data first. So the tracking should probably be pretty similar but I’d expect the GK-5 to be less prone to cable/jack issues that can develop with the 13 pin stuff

 

[sunbeast]

I'm not a big fan of Roland magnetic hex pickups. I've had the best results with piezo (ghost hexpander for example). I recently acquired the latest Fishman magnetic midi pup and its latency isn't that great. I had a Lightwave bass (that was magnificent in every way!) but I never tried one with their 13-pin midi option... i suspect it could be really good though

You used a Fishman Tripleplay on a bass? My understanding was that it was only compatible/capable of converting guitar register

 

[mikewalker]

You used a Fishman Tripleplay on a bass? My understanding was that it was only compatible/capable of converting guitar register

No, the TriplePlay is on a guitar - not a bass. Sorry, didn't mean to muddy the waters. But I've been doing 13-pin stuff for more than two decades now, still like the piezo transducers best

 

[sunbeast]

Intriguing, to say the least, but I have several questions. I've been a guitar/bass synth user for over 15 years now and still use my GK3B-equipped Carvin with a Roland GR-33, so I know what I want/expect from a guitar synth.

1: Latency and tracking. I really need to see how it responds to lower bass frequency notes/strings because pitch to midi technology has always been pretty horrendous unless you're playing in the upper register. All of these Boss SY type units don't rely on a GK PUP, you can go straight in with a 1/4", so they track fine and I suspect a lot of the on board sounds of the GM-800 are based around that, but once you require GK-specific sounds (i.e. pianos, strings, traditional sampled instruments), good luck. I have always gotten around the latency issue as best I could by stringing my GK-dedicated bass with piccolo strings.

2. I don't like the new GK5 PUP. Other than a single TRS input, I see no on board volume control, no 3 way switch: GK-Bass-Mix, nor S1/S2 switches like on the previous GK3B PUP. Having that on board control was very important for me, as I always swept volumes in and out and blended signals as needed.

3. Backwards compatibility. Apparently they are offering two different GKC-AD/DA adapter converter boxes for those of us who already own a 13 pin piezo instrument or GK-equipped one to either use the GM-800 with 13 pin instruments or control older 13 pin processors (like my GR-33). That might be how you'd reclaim the missing functionality the GK3B had I mentioned above that the GK5 PUP doesn't have, but that'll set you back another $199 per adapter box. And then it begs the question: do you lose any improved tracking and latency by using the converter, and will it respond the way the old GK3B did (i.e. will your S1/S2 switches work to change patches, will your volume knob work, etc).

I’m pretty sure the GM-800 is mostly using PCM sounds that require pitch tracking and triggering of internal sounds, just like most of the sounds in the Roland GR-55. The Boss SY pedals on the other hand are largely based on “Dynamic Synth” engines that are manipulating your input signal into something resembling a synth tone (similar approach to the analog octaver-fuzz-filter synth pedal chain popular on Talkbass, just done digitally and with a lot more adjustability). The Dynamic Synth approach has no real tracking latency since it isn’t triggering internal sounds and so doesn’t need to track pitch before it makes sounds. I’d still expect a fair amount of latency from the GM when tracking low notes on a bass and triggering PCM sounds (just as a result of the limitations of pitch tracking), but it sounds like they are using a much more powerful processor than the GR-55 so presumably the latency is less than that one at least!

 

[gumtown]

The GM-800 is 100% PCM synth tones, so the pitch tracking latency will always exist on bass, worsening the lower your go.
But one positive is the GM-800 will accept midi note trigger input (where the GR-55 doesn't) so you could also add some midi note playing pedals (Roland PK-5).

 

[Tosh]

a moderator over on vguitar forums, who has been using the GM800 with a GK3 + GKC-AD converter, reported that the S1/S2 switch signals and the GKvol signals are passed along to the GM800, and it works.

So if you already have a GK3B or a bass setup with piezos and the 13 pin output, the AD converter box is the way to go.

 

[progjeff]

I would be interested in this; however, I would like to put GM 800 and converter side by side on my pedalboard along with an expression pedal. But they only make two lengths of cable 15' and 30'. I only need a cable about a foot long to go from converter to GM 800. I don't need 15' of cable to deal with on my board.