Boutique Bass Benefits

[msmartt]

Hello all,
I would like the opinions of what makes the custom made basses command the price we see in the market, especially those modeled after the P and J bass. The body style and necks are very similar. So if one pick up a used American P or J in the $ 1k range, what drives the market. Is this weight, pickups??

Your input is appreciated.

Regards,
Michael

 

[Brad_Pearson]

One thing that simply cant be overlooked when buying a boutique instrument: You are supporting a real, hardworking luthier who had the motive and drive to learn an incredibly difficult and demanding craft; then spend decades refining and perfecting it. Most luthiers I know are incredible people. They inspire me. People who build instruments by hand are preserving an old-world craft that is slowly disappearing in light of mass production. They deserve to be paid for their work and education, the same way a trained musician deserves to be paid for their work.

Sure, the mass produced bass may work just fine (often the work and sound great!) but the money you spend is going into factory workers (who are often underpaid, and undertrained) and into the pockets of CEO's who don't care about things like conservation, sustainability, worker safety (those overseas factories often don't have the same health standards as American, Canadian, German ect. factories).

Don't get me wrong, I LOVE the fact that a kid with little to no money (like I once was) can spend $300 and get a perfectly fine instrument that COULD last a lifetime. But if you can afford to support an artisan-craftsman, I think you should.

Just my opinion. I make my own basses and strive to become one of these great artisans that I speak of (Tobias, Adamovic, Skjold, Lull, Nordstrand ect.). I understand, it may be a hard concept to grasp for someone who doesn't make their own instruments. But its similar to paying for real artwork from a local artist, vs a cheap print you found at the mall...

 

[Brad_Pearson]

Of course, my previous reply is IN ADDITION to things like a superior attention to detail in both the design and execution. Things like wood choice and quality, stabilization and treatment of the wood prior to manufacture, initial setup (watch the videos on how fodera does the initial setup, Joey spends so much time and energy to make sure your bass plays as best as it can). All of that adds up to an experience that simply cant be matched by a mass produced instrument that probably never touched a players hands before you pull it out of the box...

 

[Bassaga]

I don't own one, but I think part of the appeal is having a bass that was made as one cohesive instrument, with everything made to fit and work together perfectly. With factory basses, there's a neck, a body, other parts, they get grabbed off of a line and screwed together and boxed up. A custom bass has somebody designing each bit specifically for the one instrument and making sure each piece comes together just right and makes the ideal instrument that you're looking for. It's kinda the same difference between me adding milk and eggs to a brownie mix and hoping I end up with good brownies, versus an experienced baker who knows each ingredient, how they interact, what the end goal is, and exactly how to reach it and adapt to circumstances. We both get brownies, and my brownies will be pretty darn enjoyable, but the baker's will be in another league. So that is pretty cool, really.

Only trouble is, most of us can't afford to have Jaques Pepin make our brownies.

 

[Maxdusty]

I've seen some beautiful boutique basses that sound terrific - if you can afford it, why not right? Not going to knock those who have them and say it's all superfluous and overkill as some do on other posts. Play the bass that gives you the most joy and brings out the creativity in you. Play the best possible bass within your budget. In all honesty, the US Fender P bass and Jazz bass are standards of which other basses are most compared to, they are not the best, neither are they the worst - boutique versions of these models often are upgraded parts, better woods, better craftsmanship so while they may look like the Fender original, they're often improved versions of them, in sound and appearance, a different bass altogether. Each bassist will have a different opinion of what makes for a better bass so there are choices out there, luthiers to me are very much artists who have a different take on what beauty and what constitutes improvement over the original.

 

[Keger Jupit]

I don't think a handbuilt instrument is necessarily worth it for a newbie, nor for a hobbyist. I cut my teeth 30 yrs ago in church, & if that was the only place I played, a store-bought instrument would serve me perfecly well. Same thing applies to the occasional weekend warrior. 99% of the instruments I've owned have been off-the-shelf, & have been just fine. The sometimes unseen upside is that, if I end up not liking it, it didn't cost an arm & a leg.

If you play a lot, or music is your profession, (or $$ is no object), it makes much more sense. I was able to choose every single aspect of my instrument, down to the smallest detail. It was a wonderful experience, it required a lot of forethought, & it forced me to be realistic about my end goal & the materials/electronics/components that would help me get there.

If I were made of $$, they would all be handbuilt! Having said that, I wouldn't venture down that road unless you know what you want, & I mean really know. Take notes about your favorite bass(es), what do they have in common, what made a particular one stand out, what makes it "playable" to you, etc, etc.

Only you can answer whether or not you play enough to justify it, but if you can, & can justify the cost,

GO.
FOR.
IT!!

 

[Trouztrouz]

There are some great points in this thread already - I can't wait for the next 20 pages.

 

[Relayer71]

You're paying for a lot of things.

1) Time: usually much smaller staff at boutique builders and more hands on work by one or more persons as opposed to an assembly line cranking out dozens of instruments per day. More attention to details like finish quality, wiring, fretwork.

2) Usually better materials: you get what you pay for in most cases such as higher grade, harder to source, or YOUR CHOICE of woods; higher quality electronics, fret-wire, most materials down to truss rods and screws.

3) Higher operating costs: getting healthcare for 5 or 10 employees can be more costly than getting it for 50 or 100. Again, #1, Time: one instrument may see dozens of more man hours for construction than a run-of-the-mill assembly instrument and time = money.

4) In most cases, better customer service and perhaps life-long warranties.

Of course, like any personalized or high end service you're paying for exclusivity. A one of a kind instrument made especially for your needs.

Is it worth it? Hah. That's a whole other issue debated to death here. It's like everything else - some can see and recognize the value in spending $3000 to $12,000 on a custom instrument and some are quite content with their $400 Squiers.

 

[Keger Jupit]

There are some great points in this thread already - I can't wait for the next 20 pages.

 

[Relayer71]

I don't think a hand-built instrument is necessarily worth it for a newbie, nor for a hobbyist.

Definitely true. Like everything else, if you're new or consider yourself just a part-time hobbyist, no, it doesn't really make sense to spend that kind of money on a boutique instrument.

But I will say it does pay to get a higher quality better instrument (the mid-range, if you will), if you're a dedicated hobbyist or you see music as something you will be doing for a long time.

Otherwise, lower cost instruments are made pretty well these days and not much money needs to be spent if you want to get your feet wet and learn to play an instrument.

Set-up is the crucial thing that newbies often overlook. If you're getting a lower cost instrument (and even a higher cost one if you're completely new), have it set up by someone who knows so that it plays optimally. My first guitar (as in 6 string) was so painful to play, but I was new and had no clue.

I thought for a few years that was just the way guitars played until I played a friend's guitar which, to use the phrase often over-used here, played like butter. Not only was his action much lower, the strings that came with mine were a ridiculously high gauge starting at .013 while he was using a gauge starting at .009.

 

[jd56hawk]

Hello all,
I would like the opinions of what makes the custom made basses command the price we see in the market, especially those modeled after the P and J bass. The body style and necks are very similar. So if one pick up a used American P or J in the $ 1k range, what drives the market. Is this weight, pickups??

Your input is appreciated.

Regards,
Michael

I have a custom-made P bass.
Is the quality impeccable?
Is it as well-put-together as a Morgan Aero 8?
Am I afraid to play it at backyard barbecues and street-corner gigs?
Do I store it in a display case behind bullet-proof glass, taking it out the 1st Sunday of every month to kneel before it in homage?
No, but it's a one-off and it sounds better than any P bass I've ever played. New, it sold for $1,000 but I bought it for half that.
I'd definitely recommend these basses to anyone who doesn't care what famous name is on the headstock, anyone who wants something familiar but just a little bit different, and anyone who would prefer buying something from a small company as opposed to something pumped out at a factory.

 

[lfmn16]

Have you ever played one? Time and time again on TB we have people that have never played or owned one talk about how they aren't worth it.

To me, the biggest benefit is you get exactly what you want. I've had three basses made for me and they were all exactly what I was looking for, they all felt like they'd been played for years; very comfortable from the first note. I haven't felt that with any off the shelf bass I've played.

Go play some and answer your own question. There are some things you can't learn over the internet.

 

[Adam Wright]

I like being able to chat up the guy/staff who built the thing I make my living with. I like knowing where my money is going.

One of the aspects of a custom built piece that has recently become very important to me, but I didn’t care about for a long time, is weight. I love the American made Fenders but you’ll probably never find an Elite/Ultra Jazz that weighs 8-8.5lbs, plus I can’t get them in any color I want or with any wood combo I want.

 

[Afc70]

I’ll concur with what’s already been mentioned- Roscoe, Lull, Fodera, Modulus, Ken Lawrence, etc.. typically will be very well crafted instruments, with great attention to wood, fretwork, electronics, soldering- The total package will be of much higher quality than a cheap overseas clone or whatever. After 35 years or so of playing, I personally enjoy the higher quality instruments, compared to the junk I started out on. Life is too short for ordinary basses...

 

[James Collins]

I will point out that a boutique instrument may not make sense to a gigging musician. If you are trying to live on your music and you are making $150 profit 5 days a week you are only making $38,000 a year. A $12,000 Alembic might not be the best investment even if you get a tax write off.

 

[Keger Jupit]

Set-up is the crucial thing that newbies often overlook.

 

[Bunk McNulty]

I don't know nuthin' about nuthin', but the Birdsong cBass that Scott Beckwith built for somebody else who decided they didn't want it so it ended up with me is the easiest-to-play, best-sound bass I've ever owned, and the only one that ever came close was a Suhr jazz that cost a thousand dollars more. It's difficult to explain. When you pick it up it doesn't feel like a collection of parts; it is its own self. Interestingly, I don't play it a lot these days. It's like having a suit of clothes that you want to save for special occasions. Yes, I know that is irrational.

 

[DanAdams]

Because people like nice stuff.
You can spend lots of money on furniture and cabinets, on shoes and fashion, on cars and motorcycles, on food and drink, on travel, events, homes, art, tattoos, jewelry... instruments too.
People spend different amounts of money on things for many reasons.

 

[buldog5151bass]

In general, the more you spend, the better the craftsmanship, and the higher quality the materials.

In general, the further up the food chain you go, the less noticeable the difference.

Boutique instruments also tend to care more about asthetics - better looking wood etc., and allow for customization.

Higher quality instruments generally are paying decent wages to trained craftsmen, not under-paying people in unsafe sweatshops.

I keep my instruments for decades (my three main instruments 35, 15, and 41 years, with no intent on selling). It's worth it for me.

 

[SgtHulka]

Hello all,
I would like the opinions of what makes the custom made basses command the price we see in the market, especially those modeled after the P and J bass. The body style and necks are very similar. So if one pick up a used American P or J in the $ 1k range, what drives the market. Is this weight, pickups??

Your input is appreciated.

Regards,
Michael

The name.