Boutique Basses 10k and up?

[Doley50]

I am curious what is the justification on spending this much money on an electric bass?
I am not looking for a fight, I want to become more educated on the subject.
I have an understand of why some acoustic instruments can be rather pricey but even at that , unless it's a rare vintage or highly ornate the prices usually don't go over 5-7k, and it seems an acoustic instrument it much more detailed in the construction because the tone , loudness and precision of construction is all the instrument has, no pick ups, effects or amp to modify the sound.
Perhaps because I have never played a Carl Thomson or a Fedora, I can't really ask this question.
I understand that an electric bass played acoustically can give you a lot of information on how it may sound, but I would think that the pick up have the most influence on how an electric bass sounds , because while the resonance of the wood will effect how the strings vibrate, I can't see it being that affective.
For instance I can hear a difference between a Mahogany and Rosewood acoustic guitar , but an electric bass made from Ash or Adler or whatever , I never have associated a particular wood with a particular sound on an electric bass.
So I'am curious as to what makes a bass retail for 10k plus .
Remember not looking for a fight, but rather an education.

Thanks

 

[OldDirtyBassist]

"Justify" must be the troll word of the month here at talkbass.

 

[basschanges]

I'm like Jeff Goldblum looking at the glass of water in Jurrasic Park. It's coming, can you hear it?

1.) Worth is subjective

2.) These basses don't play themselves, but they are one of a kind works of talented and skilled craftsmen

3.) People buy these basses because they like how they play, how they sound, how they're built. The End.

 

[hasbeen]

* construction
* materials
* time to build
* demand

I don't understand these threads, but there ya go.

 

[nostatic]

For instance I can hear a difference between a Mahogany and Rosewood acoustic guitar , but an electric bass made from Ash or Adler or whatever , I never have associated a particular wood with a particular sound on an electric bass.
So I'am curious as to what makes a bass retail for 10k plus .
Remember not looking for a fight, but rather an education.

Thanks

If you can't hear the difference, then spending the money certainly is not worth it.

As for what makes a bass cost $10K and above, it really is very simple and laid out by hasbeen. It is material cost plus labor cost plus profit margin. Typically a really expensive bass will require a lot of hands-on time with luthiers who have years of experience. And if a shop actually pays their employees reasonable wages and benefits, that gets folded in as well. Labor cost is easily the biggest part of the cost on very expensive instruments.

Cost and value are two different things. Cost is an objective metric (with certain underlying "hidden costs" that are fuzzier). Value is a subjective metric that depends totally on the individual.

 

[Hobobob]

I have an understand of why some acoustic instruments can be rather pricey but even at that , unless it's a rare vintage or highly ornate the prices usually don't go over 5-7k...

Good luck finding a professional quality upright bass anywhere near this price range.
Even the most expensive electric bass (barring that Ritter gold and mammoth-tusk monstrosity) will only just scratch the bottom of the average range of quality uprights.

 

[PortlandBass77]

I agree, unless you have that kind of money to spend it seems silly to spend $10k + on a bass when you could get one just as good for $2k or less somewhere else.

 

[StayLow]

Let's not pretend bragging rights and self-worth via what one can own/finance isn't part of it. A big part of it. If you couldn't post pics online, a lot of boutique builders wouldn't exist or would not have seen their business flourish.

There are significant diminishing returns past $2k or so. Fancy woods, exclusivity, etc.

This is coming from someone who owns many >$3k bass and several >$5 basses. I gig & record them all, ding them all, even put stickers on some of them. So, I'm far from a jealous hater or uninformed. I am however a realist.

I could easily do the same work with a few basses costing maybe $2k total used. If the gigs weren't so varied, a good used $700 bass would cover it all. Probably still could if I'm honest.

Maybe others can't do it without spending the big money, but if they practice enough (and especially if they spent that money on lessons and that shopping time on practicing, including me) I'll bet they could. If they choose not to, that's none of my business or concern.

 

[nostatic]

I agree, unless you have that kind of money to spend it seems silly to spend $10k + on a bass when you could get one just as good for $2k or less somewhere else.

Find me one "just as good" as my YYD and I'll buy it. But it doesn't exist. I've looked. From afar there are ones that seem in the ballpark, but the devil is in the details.

Depends on what a player wants and needs. Not everyone has the same gigs, plays the same styles, and is looking for the same sounds that you are. The law of diminishing returns is real, but there are returns even at the upper end of the curve. Most people don't care or notice the difference though.

 

[nostatic]

Let's not pretend bragging rights and self-worth via what one can own/finance isn't part of it.

You're missing the fact that some people appreciate the craftsmanship and aesthetic that some builders bring to the table. It has nothing to do with bragging rights, but rather enjoying all aspects of what an instrument can offer. For example, this neck joint is sublime

Maybe others can't do it without spending the big money, but if they practice enough (and especially if they spent that money on lessons and that shopping time on practicing) I'll bet they could. If they choose not to, that's none of my business or concern.

All the practice in the world won't allow me to play an Am chord in an upper register voicing on a 20-fret Fender. In addition, some want to support local small builders rather than large corporations who build in overseas factories. All of this factors into purchase decisions. Not to say that some don't chase gear over making music, but that is their perogative. They earned the money, they get to spend it how they want.

 

[StayLow]

^ I said part of it, not all of it.

For many it's all of it. And many more dost protest too much that it isn't even part of it. There are perhaps dozens of 22 and 24-fret basses costing well below $2k.

As for appreciating arts and craftsmanship, I know all about it. You should see what I drink, wear, drive and hang on my walls. Doesn't mean I'm going to pretend they're in any way necessary or *practically* better than whatever's at 7-11, Wal-Mart or a Ford dealership. I want the stuff, I like the stuff, but I'll never try to justify the stuff to anyone much less pretend I need that stuff.

That's just me though.

 

[basswithabass]

My thoughts:

It all comes down to getting what each of us feel is the perfect instrument. For some people it might cost $75 from a pawn shop and for others it might cost $9,000 and come straight from the person who made it by hand. For me, it cost about $700, was made in a factory in Mexico, and had the finishing touches put on it in my garage.

 

[maves75]

It's nice to have a bass,or anything else you like that not everyone has. Exclusivity.

 

[allenhumble]

If you want a 10k bass and can afford it....buy it.

 

[malthumb]

I am curious what is the justification on spending this much money on an electric bass?
I am not looking for a fight, I want to become more educated on the subject.
I have an understand of why some acoustic instruments can be rather pricey but even at that , unless it's a rare vintage or highly ornate the prices usually don't go over 5-7k, and it seems an acoustic instrument it much more detailed in the construction because the tone , loudness and precision of construction is all the instrument has, no pick ups, effects or amp to modify the sound.
Perhaps because I have never played a Carl Thomson or a Fedora, I can't really ask this question.
I understand that an electric bass played acoustically can give you a lot of information on how it may sound, but I would think that the pick up have the most influence on how an electric bass sounds , because while the resonance of the wood will effect how the strings vibrate, I can't see it being that affective.
For instance I can hear a difference between a Mahogany and Rosewood acoustic guitar , but an electric bass made from Ash or Adler or whatever , I never have associated a particular wood with a particular sound on an electric bass.
So I'am curious as to what makes a bass retail for 10k plus .
Remember not looking for a fight, but rather an education.

Thanks

Although I have not paid that much for any one bass, I do have a couple Alembics where replacement cost / retail price exceed 10K. I bought one because it was the culmination of everything I ever wanted in a bass, arrived at over years of playing, buying, and selling basses. I custom ordered with content I wanted. The other I bought because my favorite recording artist was selling it. I made him an offer, he accepted it.

If you are serious about the part in bold red print, I would like to suggest that you go to the Fodera Club threads and the Alembic Club threads, identify the members who post there often and seem to be approachable, and ask them your questions over PM. I think this approach is pretty much troll proof. I am sure if you sent PM to me, FC Bass, or Jazzyvee we would be willing to provide any Alembic info we could that would be helpful. I get (and answer) a lot of Alembic questions over PM. I'm trying harder, though, to not get involved in any "are they really worth that much more than a <fill in the blank>" threads. Even though your intentions may be good, this is the interwebs. So far your thread is free of clutter. Hope it lasts.

 

[Baird6869]

Let's not pretend bragging rights and self-worth via what one can own/finance isn't part of it. A big part of it.

Absolutely untrue IME. I have played dozens of gigs with my Foderas and only once or twice has anyone in the crowd came up to me impressed that I had a Fodera. My playing or tone maybe, but not the brand of bass. I got MANY more complements with my American Fenders.

Buy a $10,000 Fodera or similar, play it for a few years and sell it at a profit, what you paid for it or at a small loss IME. It isn't a $10,000 spend as it is not a car that depreciates to close to zero.

I do hear what you are saying though, but I don't agree that it applies to most expensive boutique basses. I get lots of complements on my expensive shoes or watch, but almost NOBODY at my gigs or people seeing my basses at my house would fathom that I am playing or own a $10,000 bass (I didn't pay quite that much).

Regarding bragging rights, when asked how much my Foderas cost, the answer is always "it was expensive". Nobody but my wife knows what I paid for my basses.

 

[Baird6869]

To the OP....

Fair question for sure.

There are lots of AMAZING basses available for far less than $10k. New and used. I would NEVER advise spending large on a bass that you weren't 100% sure was perfect for you. Builders such as Roscoe and Stambaugh come to mind. A used Roscoe as an example can be had all day long for $1500-2500. Incredible basses and absolutely not "night and day" vs Fodera, Carl Thompson, Alembic, Ritter, etc.

Visiting and talking to luthiers is a great experience as well. Many "get it" once they see the work and passion that goes into their instruments.

Lastly, nothing wrong with loving a Squier or cheap Peavey (My $110 Millennium BXP is my Fodera's backup). Japanese and American Fenders are great and toured/recorded by likely 90% of professional musicians.

Play what you like, drive what you like, wear what you like, eat what you like, etc. no right or wrong IMO..... Actually, driving a Lambo or Ferrari in a country that has a 55-65MPH limit or wearing a gold with diamonds Rolex is just wrong, but that is just me. ;-)

 

[StayLow]

^ You gig. Many boutique owners don't. This is TALKbass. What are all the "NBD" posts and pics for, for example? Feel, playability, tone? Nope. They're mostly the equivalent of the shirtless gym selfie. A few say "look what discipline and focus can achieve" but most say "look what steroids (or credit card abuse in the bass analogy) can achieve!".

Many "bassists" get their personal value from the reaction they get online. They spend the work day stealing time from their employer posting here (or on Facebook, etc. - same idea, looking for attention) and in the evenings they're online again not practicing or gigging their basses. They probably spend more time photographing them than playing them.

I'll bet the ratio of bass owners/talkers to bass players here is very high, and it gets higher the more the basses cost.

 

[Baird6869]

^ You gig. Many boutique owners don't. This is TALKbass. What are all the "NBD" posts and pics for, for example? Feel, playability, tone? Nope. They're mostly the equivalent of the shirtless gym selfie. A few say "look what discipline and focus can achieve" but most say "look what steroids (or credit card abuse in the bass analogy) can achieve!".

Many "bassists" get their personal value from the reaction they get online. They spend the work day stealing time from their employer posting here (or on Facebook, etc. - same idea, looking for attention) and in the evenings they're online again not practicing or gigging their basses. They probably spend more time photographing them than playing them.

I'll bet the ratio of bass owners/talkers to bass players here is very high, and it gets higher the more the basses cost.

You probably aren't wrong but I don't think very many bassists buy $10k customs (and pick the woods, preamps, string spacing, neck radius, type of frets, scale, etc) just to hang on the wall and post pics of online. A $6000 Geddy Lee Fender replica for a rich Rush fan or a $10000 Alembic for a Stanley Clarke or Entwistle fan? I could see that for sure.

 

[Fuzzbass]

^ You gig. Many boutique owners don't. This is TALKbass. What are all the "NBD" posts and pics for, for example? Feel, playability, tone? Nope. They're mostly the equivalent of the shirtless gym selfie. A few say "look what discipline and focus can achieve" but most say "look what steroids (or credit card abuse in the bass analogy) can achieve!".

Many "bassists" get their personal value from the reaction they get online. They spend the work day stealing time from their employer posting here (or on Facebook, etc. - same idea, looking for attention) and in the evenings they're online again not practicing or gigging their basses. They probably spend more time photographing them than playing them.

I'll bet the ratio of bass owners/talkers to bass players here is very high, and it gets higher the more the basses cost.

Jeez, I hope I never become this cynical.