Double Bass Bow Arm Weight

[goodgig]

I play French Bow. Read a lot about moving the string horizontally rather than vertically, etc. Still a little hazy with this. I'm not exactly Popeye, but it would seem to me that even if I was, I would still need some downward pressure to produce a tone. Otherwise you have a seesaw with no playmate on the otherside.

What is meant by using the natural weight of your arm?

 

[JayR]

Well, best way I can think of to explain it is ask one of your friends to be a guinea pig for you. Have them let their arm and shoulder go totally limp/relaxed and then you try lifting it up. You will notice that, indeed, it has a substantial amount of weight. When bowing, you don't want to think of pressing down into the string because the idea of pressing creates tension and tightness. There's plenty of downward pressure going into the bow, but it's pressure that's produced by relaxing the whole weight of your arm and shoulder into the bass. I play german, not french, but I'm pretty sure the general concept is the same. You just want to do everything you can to avoid unnecessary tension.

 

[anonymous12251111]

I play French Bow. Read a lot about moving the string horizontally rather than vertically, etc. Still a little hazy with this. I'm not exactly Popeye, but it would seem to me that even if I was, I would still need some downward pressure to produce a tone. Otherwise you have a seesaw with no playmate on the otherside.

What is meant by using the natural weight of your arm?

This is a good question, and it really isn't addressed enough for french bow players. So many professionals play with tension in their bow hand and it results in less sound. I used to believe that the only way to play FF was to dig my bow into the string, but what I found out (with help also of recording devices) is that I was crushing the string and strangling the sound out of my bass. I teach really young kids bass (6-12 years old) and I've found that the best way to introduce good bow mechanics is by using references to how cellists hold the instrument and bow. If you sit fairly low (this is just an experiment), you can still have your left foot on the rung, but place the bass in front of your body, basically as if it were between your legs like a cello. It's very difficult to develope a good "into the string" bow technique while playing standing with a conventional end-pin, you just have too many balance issues to worry about. First try bowing the open A string, apply weight with your FOREARM, not wrist or fingers (they have nothing to do with it, they just follow the forearm.) Once you relax your right shoulder, concentrate your body's weight directly into your forearm and that will naturally give you a "heavy" feeling hand. This is in turn will feel like you're applying weight vertically, but you have no tension in your arm/shoulder/hand, you have just relaxed your weight in the appropriate areas. A good way to tell how into the string your bow is is by feeling how much the bass is vibrating from the back/upper bout. Once you can apply your natural arm weight, you won't have to concentrate on downward pressure, you'll just remember "this is how i relax, and this is how I play." You can then get all the sound out of a bass by "dragging" the string, or playing "horizontally." I like to picture it as you're trying to get as much juice out of an orange as you possibly can. Once you have a relaxed arm, you will be playing into the string, and the "horizontal/cello" system of playing won't allow a skating effect, as you're now in contact with the bass and strings. Once you've got this going you can raise the bass up again, and sit with it on more of an angle (especially if you have short arms, or are smaller, because some people find it difficult to apply the same weight when playing on the g string because it is farther away.) You should also check out the Rabbath Art of the Bow DVD, he doesn't explain it too well because his english is limited but you can see all the mechanics. Best of luck, once again. It took me half of my undergrad to be able to play the bass with proper into the string french bow technique.

 

[goodgig]

Thanks JayR and Calvin for your good advice. I have a Laborie endpin so balance isn't the issue. So the arm weight factors include vertically (gravity) and horizontially like a pendulum? I have Rabbath's Art of the Bow and I think I'll look at the graphics "biomechanics" at the end of the DVD later today.

 

[mheintz]

Think about the position of your elbow. If your elbow is raised, then you can develop more torque on the bow. However, if your elbow is lower, you can feel the weight of your forearm, particularly if you relax. I play both French and German. Initially, I found it difficult to feel the same dead weight with French bow, because one's elbow is naturally lower with German simply because of the rotation of the the forearm. It is for this reason, I believe, that Rabbath suggests that sautillé strokes are easier to perform with a relaxed, lowered elbow, which permits the weight to be applied without pressure.

 

[David Potts]

For me natural weight means weight of the arm resting on the strings through the hook formed by first finger and thumb of the bow hold. With nothing, no "crane muscles," on top of the arm holding back. To me this produces a nice earthy tone by bending the hair around the string and suppressing some of the upper partials, and sounds no more than about mf.

To use this weight smoothly and effectively from end to end of the bow without lifting I rotate the elbow up and out slightly which turns the bow hold in and throws weight forward onto the index finger. Only a few degrees, in order to align the elbow (hinge joint) movement with the bow direction. This works well for ON STRING playing.

For OFF STRING and SEMI-OFF playing I lower the elbow until bow hold fingers are parallel with the stick and I can "pat" the string with a shallow carried bounce. This works well near the balance point of the bow, that magic place that makes string crossing easy, and produces nice warm quaver speeds that I call "Haydn/Mozart" (try the opening of Eine Kleine Nachtsmusik).

SPICCATO could be as far out as the middle of the bow and require a different approach again because the string is more struck with a steeper "vee" shape by rotating the bow around the thumb. Generally bass players are allowed to produce spiccato closer to the balance point because our strings are so heavy.

So, my bow hold keeps changing according to the demands of the music. Three big variables come into play - bow speed, weight and contact point - also take into account which string you are playing on (the heavier the string the slower the bow)

The further you bow from the bridge the faster the bow must move to support and drive the vibrations. I prefer to bow closer, say near half way between fingerboard and bridge where the string is stiffer, and use a little more weight with a slightly slower bow. I listen for resonance, tone and projection while encouraging free movement of the strings even though the weight of my arm is bending the hair around them and controlling them.

Try this experiment. Wrap your fist around the frog. Crush the bow down on the D string and slowly draw a screeching BUT EVEN sounding down bow (like drawing your fingernails down the blackboard at school, remember!). Repeat this again and again, gradually reducing the weight and you will start to hear the note come out, still hopelessly crushed, from under the bow. Finally the full beautiful tone will emerge, the string will be moving freely and the bow hair will still be bent around the string!! Then go to the proper bow hold and copy. This is my model sound that I try to apply to all notes, all strings, as a starting point in sound production.

I do believe in using the natural weight of the arm for on-string playing. How I set my bow and bow arm to achieve this would take much more space to explain.

 

[goodgig]

Thanks Mheinz and David for your thoughtful help. I guess that the relaxed forearm weight does infact get transfered into the string with the movement of the bow. When I first posted, I was just thinking that if the point where bow and string meet, all the weight is on one side and questioned how arm weight would factor into the "best sound" equation. David, I tried your experiment and it does result in a feel for the best sound as it appies to arm weight. I'm aware that elbow placement factors in as some of you mentioned.

Today I met up with the principal bassist of the Jacksonville Symphony Orchestra and will be lining up a lesson with him this summer.

Thanks again guys.