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Double Bass Brad Sarno’s V8 Octal preamp
- Thread starter flatback
- Start date
I'm curious about your experience..
played a little informal thing with a guitarist last night and I used just the V8. Finally I felt like a sonic equal.Doesn't mean I took up more space or was louder, just deeper, richer, way way more present and dynamic. If you listen to say an CD like Missouri Skies, Pat and Charlie, you are hearing what I am talking about, fat present musical warm. I noticed that like my Dynaco tube home stereo (with these giant Klipsch Cornwalls someone gave me) if you listen (or have your amp in my case) really low,..the sound does not change, it does not diminish in intensity just volume. Freaky but in the best way. Tube seem to have these different identifiable characteristics that are distinct and seperate; like presence. It is a thing that with SS you just don't even consider (the Felix has some but in a very clean not in your face way) The V8 is in your face with presence.But it also (by making things so near) excites all the harmonic intensity in a way that some people are going to love and others, no offense,..it's just that it exposes your weaknesses. Intonation? You get so much more to use in terms of harmonic content and flip side you better not be hanging around at the edges of notes, because it is gunna broadcast your failure. Hesitations? Overplaying? Thwacks that shoulda been notes? They all do sound better, but also worse.
Man the treble knob is so powerful on the V8...
Man the treble knob is so powerful on the V8...
Love that album, last time I listened to the CD it didn't sound like I remembered it in my head. The musicianship is extraordinary and the tunes are exquisite, but
by comparison I prefer the sound of Charlie's bass on the Keith Jarret Duos with Charlie, likely because it's ECM that did the final mixes. Now, I'll be spending the rest of the day listening
to that album once again, not a bad thing. Glad you love the Octal, for the present, I'm keepin' the Grace
, it serves me well with the MAS powered cabinet. When the Sarno
comes round, I'm more than glad to have been afforded the opportunity to try it out.
by comparison I prefer the sound of Charlie's bass on the Keith Jarret Duos with Charlie, likely because it's ECM that did the final mixes. Now, I'll be spending the rest of the day listening
to that album once again, not a bad thing. Glad you love the Octal, for the present, I'm keepin' the Grace
, it serves me well with the MAS powered cabinet. When the Sarnocomes round, I'm more than glad to have been afforded the opportunity to try it out.
Yeah Played a trio gig last night with just the V8 ...spent some time sorta unhappy because it had a big fretless tone. Then I realized that I had the bass turned down AND the imp set too low...C'est Voila back to sick rich tone. Im going to try the BB>V8 tonight ...we have this quintet concert that has been billed for a few weeks but PG&E is gong to turn off the power, so I might be hooked up to a generator and the hall will be candle light.
These simple two knob eq's have a tremendous amount of variability and complexity, ...you think oh maybe I'll just twist some Bakelite and see what it gets me but you have to remember that flat is the best and slightly off flat is getting into different. A slight bass boost is serious and that treble knob is a world of it's own.
These simple two knob eq's have a tremendous amount of variability and complexity, ...you think oh maybe I'll just twist some Bakelite and see what it gets me but you have to remember that flat is the best and slightly off flat is getting into different. A slight bass boost is serious and that treble knob is a world of it's own.
update: After a weekend of using both the BB and the V8 together and separate I am totally impressed by the Vari Z as HPF. The efficiency of that one dial, the fact that THE most needed and used function of an upright bass preamp is the HPF...the VariZ becomes an interactive part of the eq on the V8 (lower the imp to reduce low bass then turn UP the bass knob slightly...or a lot) it becomes totally USEFUL eq points. Combined with the utter plushness of the tube warmth and the crazy presence, I am addicted to Brad's designs. I used the V8 by itself the other night in a duo and it was just the best sound. The other musician(s) and audience are way responsive...my wife who has been listening to me play for nearly 30 years said after the concert on Sat that the tone was exceptional and rich and powerful, and that it sat under the band really nicely and the solos kept up with the other soloists in terms of impact and richness of projected tone.
If I had only a little money to spend I would get a BB and plug it into anything, but the V8 is like driving a Jag. On the duo gig I turned the treble knob way up (which also changes where the mid dip is) and in the context of playing with ambient noise and piano it added so much air and definition, sounded so good. Brad has done a great thing for us upright players just by making that VariZ go up to 10M ohms.
If I had only a little money to spend I would get a BB and plug it into anything, but the V8 is like driving a Jag. On the duo gig I turned the treble knob way up (which also changes where the mid dip is) and in the context of playing with ambient noise and piano it added so much air and definition, sounded so good. Brad has done a great thing for us upright players just by making that VariZ go up to 10M ohms.
flatback...if you have both the BB and V8, doesn’t the BB have Vari Z also, or am I missing something? I’ve seen the VZ mod on the V8, which is a great idea!
yeah I have both the BB and V8 and BOTH have the VariZ BUT if I use only the V8 then that VariZ is operative, if I use both then the BB is the working VariZ....only the one that is connected DIRECTLY to the pickup. WHen I went ahead and bought the V8 I didn't know if they would sound good together or if I would only like one or what so I have the VariZ on both...When I got the V8 and plugged the BB into it I REALLY liked it...I asked Brad if I should like it, or if I am just nuts (you know I am) but he said that that exact set up is what is in his flagship Revelation Preamp (BB tube buffer/VariZ>V8 eq/preamp) and that it is really the ultimate tone because the tone that the V8 is getting to work with is already idealized so the V8 can shape that tone. In practice what it sounds like is the BB creates a PHAT but direct clear punchy tone, that the V8 is then free to shape and amplify...BUT the V8 by itself is really all anyone would need. (or the BB if you wanted to go into a Solid State preamp) I will use both because I have both and dig it but honestly the V8 is the king of preamps.
BTW I plugged the V8 into the FX loop of the Felix ....(I will prolly never use it that way) but THAT sounded totally sick too. I used the Ischell in Ch 1 and the Yama in Ch 2 then tried the stat B in Ch 1. It all sounds great. But too much complication does not add more, it just adds complication. I can really see just having the V8 sitting on top of the MAS18powered as my main rig.
I also can see using the BB on my little nano pedalboard with the Felix if I were to need a mic FOH.
BTW I plugged the V8 into the FX loop of the Felix ....(I will prolly never use it that way) but THAT sounded totally sick too. I used the Ischell in Ch 1 and the Yama in Ch 2 then tried the stat B in Ch 1. It all sounds great. But too much complication does not add more, it just adds complication. I can really see just having the V8 sitting on top of the MAS18powered as my main rig.
I also can see using the BB on my little nano pedalboard with the Felix if I were to need a mic FOH.
Thanks Piro, you answered all my questions. Obviously the Octal V8 and Noble both do a great job. Have you had experience with the Noble? Would like seeing a comparison. I like the form factor of the Noble because it could sit on my pedal board with the knobs on top. I wonder if that’s a mod Brad has thought of?
I've been out playing this box for a cuppla too tree weeks now, both with the Black Box out in front and just straight into the V8.
The V8 is just a stellar preamp for upright. Some of the things Brad has said so well get a little glossed over in all of the Vari Z talk but the V8 is a clean, pure, signal path that you can HEAR the purity of. It is remarkable to work with in that it is just so pure and clean in what it does. The V8 has Octal tubes. everything I said before about how they amplify the signal is so true. This preamp opens up this big wide space for the bass tone to inhabit. (this is either with the BB out front OR straight into the V8)
Last week I blew my poweramp and I have been using different cabs and PA speakers for several gigs...and while you can definitely hear the differences in cabs, those differences pale when compared to how radically the V8 changes the tone and sonic space of the bass. I keep playing these gigs where I have had problems before and the V8 just shines. I LOVE the sound of the BB>V8 but just the V8 is soooo killing.
The eq is radical for upright. That is: every slight turn of either knob gets you big fat differences in tone. I keep having to remind myself to love flat, because for example if you crank the treble knob to 3 oclock you add so much air and tone to the mix that is becomes a dramatically different tone, turn up the bass and you can get thick as chocolate pudding. The combination of the three knobs VariZ Bass and Treble, out tones the Felix (with its dozens of knobs) by about 2000%. That is not to knock the Felix. Run the V8 INTO the Felix and get all of IT'S advantages (mute, blend, FX loop, boost, etc) PLUS the V8's mojo. I did that last week, running the Remic Red to FOH and the V8 into Felx ch 2>my amp...
What these boxes do really shines ON THE GIG. At home if you crank the Treble you might flinch from how much detail you get, but on a gig with ambient noise and a drummer and suddenly you have clarity, air, presence, dynamics, and while it does not scream MBOL it does mitigate the piezo ugliness (in a way no other preamp does) and sits in the mix just so rightly.
With the BB out in front what happens to the tone is that the BB provides the V8 with the full monty to work with, so the tone is a little punchier with a more direct tone to play with (not direct in terms of ugly DI) ...then that tone gets the wide open Octal treatment and personally I am in heaven. I think a lot of bassists who get into the whole gut/ old school thing would love the V8 just by itself. I have not put guts on to try but I imagine that with that much clarity and presence the sound of the string becomes more noticeable and prominent.
That Brad sells the V8 for nearly half the price of a Monique (the only other Octal preamp I know) and still way less then the Noble, is just such a stellar deal. And the BB being only a few hundred is a no brainier...you can plug the BB into ANYTHING and it carries the mojo with it. Total Sarno fan here.
The V8 is just a stellar preamp for upright. Some of the things Brad has said so well get a little glossed over in all of the Vari Z talk but the V8 is a clean, pure, signal path that you can HEAR the purity of. It is remarkable to work with in that it is just so pure and clean in what it does. The V8 has Octal tubes. everything I said before about how they amplify the signal is so true. This preamp opens up this big wide space for the bass tone to inhabit. (this is either with the BB out front OR straight into the V8)
Last week I blew my poweramp and I have been using different cabs and PA speakers for several gigs...and while you can definitely hear the differences in cabs, those differences pale when compared to how radically the V8 changes the tone and sonic space of the bass. I keep playing these gigs where I have had problems before and the V8 just shines. I LOVE the sound of the BB>V8 but just the V8 is soooo killing.
The eq is radical for upright. That is: every slight turn of either knob gets you big fat differences in tone. I keep having to remind myself to love flat, because for example if you crank the treble knob to 3 oclock you add so much air and tone to the mix that is becomes a dramatically different tone, turn up the bass and you can get thick as chocolate pudding. The combination of the three knobs VariZ Bass and Treble, out tones the Felix (with its dozens of knobs) by about 2000%. That is not to knock the Felix. Run the V8 INTO the Felix and get all of IT'S advantages (mute, blend, FX loop, boost, etc) PLUS the V8's mojo. I did that last week, running the Remic Red to FOH and the V8 into Felx ch 2>my amp...
What these boxes do really shines ON THE GIG. At home if you crank the Treble you might flinch from how much detail you get, but on a gig with ambient noise and a drummer and suddenly you have clarity, air, presence, dynamics, and while it does not scream MBOL it does mitigate the piezo ugliness (in a way no other preamp does) and sits in the mix just so rightly.
With the BB out in front what happens to the tone is that the BB provides the V8 with the full monty to work with, so the tone is a little punchier with a more direct tone to play with (not direct in terms of ugly DI) ...then that tone gets the wide open Octal treatment and personally I am in heaven. I think a lot of bassists who get into the whole gut/ old school thing would love the V8 just by itself. I have not put guts on to try but I imagine that with that much clarity and presence the sound of the string becomes more noticeable and prominent.
That Brad sells the V8 for nearly half the price of a Monique (the only other Octal preamp I know) and still way less then the Noble, is just such a stellar deal. And the BB being only a few hundred is a no brainier...you can plug the BB into ANYTHING and it carries the mojo with it. Total Sarno fan here.
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Sorry to hear the Bassics poweramp went down. Can it be repaired locally or will you have to ship it back to Great Britian?
Another great report Piro. I have a BB on order and will run it through the Felix. If things work out, after the first of the year I will take a serious look at the V8 also.
Really this preamp is such the bomb. I have been using it the last week just by itself (I love the BB into the V8 but man it is not needed, this thing is so perfect.) The VariZ HPF works like a charm, it is amazing to hear my MAS 46 roar to life when you find that exact right spot with the VariZ that cuts all the mud but leaves the full spectrum of harmonic spectrum above.
I have been playing gigs with wildly different eqs just for fun. This week taking only the V8 I have been playing with it so the treble is nearly off and the bass is boosted a little (with the VariZ cutting bass) that is such a warm woody yet still quick tone on my bass. Spin the treble up to 3 o'clock and it adds so much air it really sounds like you have added a mic (there are pickup artifacts but muted) but the way the tubes deal with all the harmonic material is just so musical and spacial. I have done a lot of blending a mic into the mix to achieve way less then what the V8 delivers with a pickup (and no feedback or bleed).
I love the Wait/Run knob too, somehow warming up the tubes, makes you feel good.
I have been playing gigs with wildly different eqs just for fun. This week taking only the V8 I have been playing with it so the treble is nearly off and the bass is boosted a little (with the VariZ cutting bass) that is such a warm woody yet still quick tone on my bass. Spin the treble up to 3 o'clock and it adds so much air it really sounds like you have added a mic (there are pickup artifacts but muted) but the way the tubes deal with all the harmonic material is just so musical and spacial. I have done a lot of blending a mic into the mix to achieve way less then what the V8 delivers with a pickup (and no feedback or bleed).
I love the Wait/Run knob too, somehow warming up the tubes, makes you feel good.
Trying to be less superlative and yacky, but damn. Using the V8 on it's own is simply the best preamp I have ever used. THe BB has an amplification factor (like all 12AX7 tubes) of 100. So it amplifies the signal100x. The Octal tubes in the V8 have a much lower amplification factor. It's like blowing up a print of a photograph, if you blow it up really large you can see the grain...That granularity can be seductive (like in a black and white print the grain can add it's own dimension) but the clean pure tone of this preamp just has to be heard to understand how that purity translates when you are playing. (One obvious way is there is way less pickup artifact distortion) Then the presence it creates, is just different then anything else.
My favorite sound guy Dennis who has heard my iterations for quite a few years now, came up to me after the set the other day and said, "Now what is THAT?, that is the best sound you have ever had" Dennis has been there blending with me and FOHing different mics, the ToneDexter, tons of pickups, cabs, amps etc...
Man this cat Brad Sarno is something else.
My favorite sound guy Dennis who has heard my iterations for quite a few years now, came up to me after the set the other day and said, "Now what is THAT?, that is the best sound you have ever had" Dennis has been there blending with me and FOHing different mics, the ToneDexter, tons of pickups, cabs, amps etc...
Man this cat Brad Sarno is something else.
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Hey Sam...I'm not sure if it was have to ask Brad...totally worth having on there. Everytime I try something different lately, I ask "Why" and go back to the simple perfection of the V8.
Mike just told me my MAS 18P is on it's way so I am really looking forward to the super HiFI compact footprint V8/MAS18) .
Mike just told me my MAS 18P is on it's way so I am really looking forward to the super HiFI compact footprint V8/MAS18) .
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Has anyone else gotten an Octal? I bought a used one. I'm running electric bass through it, but there's no discussion on the other side. I have a call into Brad, but no response. I'm assuming he's really busy before the holiday. I managed to find a used one with the added mid eq. The eq on mine isn't super helpful for electric bass. It sounds like both the low and high eq are set super high, which makes it sound too bright when I use a bass with roundwound strings. Just wondering if anyone has experience with the Octal and an electric bass. Was hoping to run this on a month long gig in January, but unless I buy an external EQ box to make up for the sound, this one won't work out...which would be a shame because the quality of the sound, eq aside, is insanely good.
...when I read about the Octal on the Steel Guitar pages it seemed like the 3 eq model was modded for steel guitar. I am sure given a little patience Brad will get back to you and let you know for sure and if you can remod it for bass, of not I know several people who might be willing to go thru that with Brad to get a used V8.
I'm sure. Just wanted to see if anyone else had experience with these. Super appreciated though. Not mad at the sound. It's incredible. Just wanted to see of anyone else had experience specifically with the 3 band and how the eq worked. Was just hoping to hear from Brad so I could send it off to him. Sounds like a great guy just running a small business. Completely understandable. Thanks!
