Double Bass Breaking the rules: fast Chromatic/melodic solos for DB breaks in Bluegrass...

[Don Hergert]

I've recently started using alternating RH fingering with the double bass and it is opening up some real new possibilities for me... I've begun working up chromatic/melodic bluegrass fiddle tunes as solo pizz improv exercises during practice, and it's becoming pretty clear that some of these are potentially usable for DB breaks in jams or even on stage.

I've been in bluegrass for 55 years now so I know, it's rare when a double bass gets a break in a jam, and even more rare for a double bass to play an actual chromatic or melodic pizz line in bluegrass or fiddle tunes. And I know this is a regional thing too, but I can see it's obviously possible.

I'm talking about fast fingering like for melodic fiddle tunes like Blackberry Blossum, Ragtime Annie, Devil's Dream, and I'm talking about up tempo chromatic arrangements for hot bluegrass tunes like the classic FMB, OBS, Liberty, Rolling in My Sweeet Baby's Arms, etc., with some possible melodic or chromatic crossover between fiddle and straight bluegrass tunes.

I'd be interested in TB/DB/ bluegrass DB players thoughts about this.... Is this something you'd consider doing if you get a break in a bluegrass jam, or possibly even on stage?

 

[EdwardofHuncote]

I'd just be ready, and then when the time comes, rip it. Not many players are going to expect it... especially on the tunes you've named, at any given accepted tempo for those.

If it's 'that kind of jam' then you're okay. If it's corruptin' the groove, you'll know.

 

[turf3]

I've recently started using alternating RH fingering with the double bass and it is opening up some real new possibilities for me... I've begun working up chromatic/melodic bluegrass fiddle tunes as solo pizz improv exercises during practice, and it's becoming pretty clear that some of these are potentially usable for DB breaks in jams or even on stage.

I've been in bluegrass for 55 years now so I know, it's rare when a double bass gets a break in a jam, and even more rare for a double bass to play an actual chromatic or melodic pizz line in bluegrass or fiddle tunes. And I know this is a regional thing too, but I can see it's obviously possible.

I'm talking about fast fingering like for melodic fiddle tunes like Blackberry Blossum, Ragtime Annie, Devil's Dream, and I'm talking about up tempo chromatic arrangements for hot bluegrass tunes like the classic FMB, OBS, Liberty, Rolling in My Sweeet Baby's Arms, etc., with some possible melodic or chromatic crossover between fiddle and straight bluegrass tunes.

I'd be interested in TB/DB/ bluegrass DB players thoughts about this.... Is this something you'd consider doing if you get a break in a bluegrass jam, or possibly even on stage?

When I get pointed for a solo, I try to play much the same kind of thing I'd play if I were playing any other instrument. Melody lines. Of course, due to the constraints of playing double bass, there'll be fewer notes and more space. If I am struggling, or real tired, or if the groove isn't real firm, then I may well just play walking bass in 4.

I generally get good responses.

This is in jams, and the level of the jams varies widely, as is normal.

 

[TDAN]

I mean, if you want to get another solo, playing something interesting and melodic helps

I struggle to solo well at the typical tempos for the tunes you mentioned but having some ostinato patterns and melodic 4/4 walking phrases in mind helps glue things together. Tough to play more notes than the banjo or the mandolin but slides and articulations can sound nice and add a different voice to the mix. Playing fake book sessions with guys who expect melodic improvised walking lines and a bass solo on every tune is great practice.

I know tastes vary and all of that but I’d rather hear and play a more ambitious solo (even if it gets me on a bluegrass police watchlist or something) than the comedic relief type bass break.

 

[Don Hergert]

Just a short snippet as a possible example...

 

[Don Hergert]

Also...

 

[Jason Sypher]

It depends on the level of players and the level of listening going on in the session. That said, you’re not going to be able to punch through and keep the rhythm with that pizz technique. I’d only solo if I knew I could keep the drive of the tune. Letting a session down because I want to do something breaks a few golden rules, number one, that we never sacrifice rhythm for personal fame!

 

[Jason Sypher]

Also...

Thinking about this for the last few hours I think you need to figure out a way to keep the volume, the propulsion and the swing of the tune to make this a viable approach. You probably know that I love playing fiddle tunes on the bass, they’re challenging, they’re fun and they’re beautiful. But how do we go from being able to play them softly in our living room to being able to confidently drop into one in a live performance? Experience mostly. Find some sympathetic players and do your thing. Hang out before or after the session and get someone to duo with, for fun. Players will often find it at least amusing that you are learning melodies and might enjoy hearing them played on a bass. Adapt to the challenges you find trying to play these tunes with another player. With time you will start to parse out what works and what doesn’t.

 

[Don Hergert]

Yes!!! Your YT of Big Sciota (or is it Scioto?) has been one of my biggest inspirations to also try some of these with the bow, although that will probably be a goal for the rest of my life.

The RH fingering actually has matured a lot over the last 6 or so months... I have been working on volume, tone and tempo control during the solo breaks, and it's also helped me iron out my direction during normal backup playing. Also I've moved from just fiddle tunes to more "normal" bluegrass tunes, so my library of "ready to break" songs has been growing fast. And I've also used it in a good number of jams now, which helps dramatically to see what is really required.

Even before picking up double bass myself, I've always wanted to hear more DB breaks, as do most of the participants of the jams and band gigs I'm involved with. I'm pretty much on the "let's get the upright out of the closet" bluegrass team, who know how to support and enjoy DB breaks.

Really appreciate all your comments here!

 

[Jason Sypher]

Yes!!! Your YT of Big Sciota (or is it Scioto?) has been one of my biggest inspirations to also try some of these with the bow, although that will probably be a goal for the rest of my life.

The RH fingering actually has matured a lot over the last 6 or so months... I have been working on volume, tone and tempo control during the solo breaks, and it's also helped me iron out my direction during normal backup playing. Also I've moved from just fiddle tunes to more "normal" bluegrass tunes, so my library of "ready to break" songs has been growing fast. And I've also used it in a good number of jams now, which helps dramatically to see what is really required.

Even before picking up double bass myself, I've always wanted to hear more DB breaks, as do most of the participants of the jams and band gigs I'm involved with. I'm pretty much on the "let's get the upright out of the closet" bluegrass team, who know how to support and enjoy DB breaks.

Really appreciate all your comments here!

Also don’t forget that you don’t have to play every note, the swing is found in the syncopation but also in the spaces.

 

[Steve Killingsworth]

A lot of wisdom here.

 

[Don Hergert]

Still working on this one...

 

[Jason Sypher]

Still working on this one...

I like this as an intro. Only bass. Then after you finish the band kicks it up a notch and play it together…

 

[Don Hergert]

Your version with the bow and clawhammer'er is so amazing!!!

 

[Jason Sypher]

Your version with the bow and clawhammer'er is so amazing!!!

Ha. It took us a second to adjust to that crazy loud stage volume but we settled into it. That’s Mark Olitsky on banjo. We used to camp together at festivals and he encouraged me to play tunes on the bass. I’m not sure I would have figured it out with him. I quickly learned that I really had to be rhythmic to make it fly. That was so long ago. I think I’ve got a much better grip on it now but it’s funny to see where I was at the time. I remember it was kind of a “coming out” performance. I don’t think we ever tried this in front of people before. There was such a hush at first, I thought “oh my god, they’re HATING this!” but then some guy yelled out and it put my nerves more at ease! Glad you like it.

 

[Don Hergert]

... I think I’ve got a much better grip on it now but it’s funny to see where I was at the time. I remember it was kind of a “coming out” performance.

There was huge energy in that performance, I can even feel it on YouTube. Maybe because it was a "coming out" performance.

Our band has had that "huge energy" kind of experience on stage a few times, and while it is exhilarating, we can't plan on it because it doesn't always happen. It seems like maybe it's random circumstances that include risk, pulling everyone including the audience together.

Wonderful job there Jason!

 

[Jason Sypher]

There was huge energy in that performance, I can even feel it on YouTube. Maybe because it was a "coming out" performance.

Our band has had that "huge energy" kind of experience on stage a few times, and while it is exhilarating, we can't plan on it because it doesn't always happen. It seems like maybe it's random circumstances that include risk, pulling everyone including the audience together.

Wonderful job there Jason!

Yeah, there was an electricity in the air. Audiences can be very tapped in. We’ve all felt that thing where you’re in a room and you know something is happening. That’s love music at its absolute best. It’s so not about perfection and all about connection.

 

[Don Hergert]

Another recent project...

 

[turf3]

I'll never be able to play Bye Bye Blues without this in my head.

 

[Jason Sypher]

I'll never be able to play Bye Bye Blues without this in my head.

This is such a great album!