Bright Size Life Question

[nonohmic]

See below:

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Thanks. I've got some work to do, even just to listen and understand what's going on.

I've learned a lot from this thread. Despite the rocky start I'm glad I made it.

 

[T Bassman]

Well clearly I'm too early on in my musical education cause I'm incredibly confused how that was helpful.

It’s literally there in plain language.

 

[Jazz Ad]

Bona plays with extra clear articulation so this version of the trio is easier to pick up.

 

[thombo]

The BSL version is my fav, but the Trio-Live version w/ Bill Steward and Larry Grenadier is killer too! A little more groovy and playful. I had the pleasure of seeing them play back in the early 2000's.

 

[Paul New]

Depending on the accuracy of the information contained within it, if what was shared in Jaco's biography written by Bill Milkowski is indeed 100% true, Jaco would not have been able to tone down his energy and creativity to fit within the 'ECM standards' for a buttoned-up, chill vibe. In the book, it's discussed that Metheny was almost considering having Dave Holland play bass on the record instead of Jaco because of label pressure regarding the 'vibe' of the music. Jaco took the energy up 110%, and even what is on the record is tame compared with what they were doing on live gigs. I have friends who were in Boston in the late 70s hearing Gary Burton, Metheny, etc. and they confirmed that those shows were crazy energetic that Metheny/Moses/Pastorius were playing.

Sure, but I wonder if Mr Eicher had visions of many ethereal sleepy-time Jaco albums. Or he might have been discouraged from that by Jaco's personality. Metheny did indicate that Jaco required a lot of "push-back" to produce that, and Eicher was witness to it all. It would be interesting to know if he approached Jaco with the idea.

I don't remember that from the biography, must be time for a re-read.

 

[gscroggin]

what dirt? that's a top premo jazz show c.1974, a journey of themes and solos. sorry it's not what you think of as perfect. Jeepers there's allot of amazing playing in there, a jaco harmonics and fuzz solo show, the drums are almost non existent except the ride and jaco's tone is muted by a lousy mic, and they are jamming, sometimes playing personal familiar licks, but just not the laser focus of the recording (which I think they had recorded already). So this was the live 1000th time playing it, not early development. They were flippant with it from familiarity.

When I think dirty Metheny, I think "The Sign of 4"...

 

[bassbrad]

@nonohmic welcome to the trenches of learning jazz, this lesson was gentle and quite free, heed it well.

One of the many reasons to transcribe a solo or bass part above the 'monkey see, monkey do, see monkey play' is to try to understand the players unique approach to improvisation and harmonization in the moment. That takes into account all the hours spent in study, practice, jamming, making mistakes and above all listening to others explore those same changes. For a bass player we have a unique position to simultaneously improvise bass lines to support and propel others as they improvise those same changes, often as part of a team, if we are lucky with a brilliant chordal painter pianist or guitarist but sometimes we have to go it alone.

On "Bright Size Life" as our friend @Jazz Ad so artfully outlined all the players were using the song's framework to create their parts. They were all mindful of the melody ~ that's right BASS folks I said melody ~ the harmonic changes are just there to create a flow which both Jaco and Pat play very sparingly to leave room for the statement of the melody and the improvisation as well as the interplay with the drummer.

 

[shadven]

Well clearly I'm too early on in my musical education cause I'm incredibly confused how that was helpful.

You don’t exhibit much grace. You come across poorly. I don’t think that is your intention, but it doesn’t really make someone want to offer any guidance or conversation.

 

[FritzM]

Pat talks about Jaco and recording "Bright Size Life" in this video. Pat says he insisted that Jaco play simplistic over certain parts.

 

[nonohmic]

You don’t exhibit much grace. You come across poorly. I don’t think that is your intention, but it doesn’t really make someone want to offer any guidance or conversation.

Thanks see post #15.

 

[Watchootognbout]

...................Bright Size Life is just like that. The pulse has 2 triplets, second one with a ghost in the middle then 4 8th notes. Takida-tahumda-tadi-tadi and so on.
The song has many different rhythmic parts but this pulse remains.
If you can each catch the pulse and keep it inside as long as you play, the band will sound tight.

That's how I do it at least, it's a very practical approach.

Can't remember where,but I read that the rhythm is a samba beat.
Albeit a very light one.

 

[Deleted member 165050]

So I finally got around to listening to Bright Size Life and I'll say that (to me) is Jaco at his finest. Just beautiful melodic playing and support of the soloist.

But my question for this forum is; how do you even start studying such a dynamic trio?
There is no piano outlining the chords. Presumably that's Jaco's job but he's still kinda all over the place.

Where do you start trying to understand and transcribe music like that?

You just have to feel it. If you don't feel it and can't wing most of it by ear, maybe Jaco's bass lines are in tab somewhere.

 

[Cutter8]

Cool thanks for that waste of bandwidth.

Well, you definitely picked an appropriate avatar.

 

[TreySonagras]

Start with the "Pat Metheny Songbook". Just checked my copy and most of the tunes are in there. At least that'll give you the guitar part and chord progression.. Should be a good start.

Regards
Mark

I second the Pat Metheny Song Book. Often I’ll just follow along as I listen.

 

[Staccato]

The song was mentioned in the Pat Metheny segment on Rick Beato's channel. Was that helpful?

 

[Ed Fuqua]

Well, if I'm transcribing a solo over a well known jazz standard at least there is a song form to guide you. Even though there may be a lot of variation.

In something like the playing on this album, how can you even tell what the form is? Or how far they are straying from it?

Or is ii just a bunch of notes with no underlying harmony?

Well, first of all, a lot of that music has been transcribed already and the lead sheets (melody and harmony, not solos and basslines etc.) are available. So the first thing I'd suggest is to get the lead sheet and learn the melody and then listen to the recording, because all they are doing is improvising over the form. It's just not a standard 32 bar song form. I know that BRIGHT SIZE LIFE, UNQUITY ROAD, and SIRABHORN (although I don't think it's called that) are in REAL BOOK 1, some of the later quartet things (like JAMES) are in other fake books.

But the bottom line is that there's not really anything different going on with BRIGHT SIZE LIFE than there is with oh, I don't know, JIMMY RANEY LIVE IN TOKYO. Pat, Jaco, and Bob may have a more contemporary vocabulary than Jimmy, Sam, and Leroy but they are approaching improvising over form in much the same way.

 

[Don Kasper]

get the lead sheet and learn the melody

To the OP -
Don't forget to learn & hear the correct chord changes, as well. The corrections below appear on the original version of BSL, and also the live version with Richard Bona, Pat, and Antonio S. See esp. m3 & 4 of the A section and m5,6,7,8 of the Bridge.
Listen and read along with the recording many DOZENS of times - you will start to "hear" the FORM.
Then play along with the track, playing ONLY the root of each chord change in each measure.
IMFO.
Thanks.

 

[nonohmic]

To the OP -
Don't forget to learn & hear the correct chord changes, as well. The corrections below appear on the original version of BSL, and also the live version with Richard Bona, Pat, and Antonio S. See esp. m3 & 4 of the A section and m5,6,7,8 of the Bridge.
Listen and read along with the recording many DOZENS of times - you will start to "hear" the FORM.
Then play along with the track, playing ONLY the root of each chord change in each measure.
IMFO.
Thanks.
View attachment 4390310

Thanks for the insight. But this kind of raises more questions for me. Did you make these corrections?

And if so, thats amazing but also how did you come to identify them without a chordal instrument guiding your ear?

Edit: without Pat playing chords..

Could it not have just been passing notes or something similar that appeared to change the flavor of the harmony?

 

[nonohmic]

The song was mentioned in the Pat Metheny segment on Rick Beato's channel. Was that helpful?

Will sit down and watch that this weekend.

 

[Don Kasper]

Thanks for the insight. But this kind of raises more questions for me. Did you make these corrections?

And if so, thats amazing but also how did you come to identify them without a chordal instrument guiding your ear?

Edit: without Pat playing chords..

Could it not have just been passing notes or something similar that appeared to change the flavor of the harmony?

By hearing and evaluating the bass note(s) and Pat's melodic (and harmonic) material, I was able to construct a reasonably accurate/correct Harmonic analysis. (The Real Book is Real Wrong in this example.)
For instance - in m3 & 4 - Jaco plays MOSTLY Bb's (NOT A's) there... He also sometimes plays some (high) harmonic D's and A's on top of the Bb low note - thus - Bb maj7 + Pat's E in the melody = Bbmaj7, #11.
Having some keyboard skills ( and also some of the Dreaded Music Theory ) will help you "hear" and be able to analyze and make sense of Harmonic structures.
Also - SING as much of the melody as you are able to. Sing along with the recording many DOZENS of times to internalize the melody. Later, you can find the melody on your bass.
Good Luck!
Thanks for your interest and civility.