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Bright Size Life Question

#21
Happily reading how this thread found its way.

Sometimes we want an answer, but we get a direction. @Jazz Ad provided a rich orientation, itself worthy of study, which reminds me of an anecdote Paulo Freire used to describe studying a problem: a couple of guys in a truck get stuck in a stream. They get out and spend some time studying the problem before they decide how to proceed. OP received a way in to solve the Bright Sized Life problem, and the underpinnings of a process to solve many more.
 
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#23
BassBrass said:
The only cold ECM artist was Jan Gabarek, but what a sound...anyway I think I got Bright Size Life in Kenmore Square a week after it was released, back when there was a temporary record store in Kenmore Squ, the other side from where The Rat was... and it has a Fla sound from Jacko, with whatever Midwestern sky Metheny brings. Pat M had just emerged from Gary Burton's band where he surprised a lot of people, the new uberkint and this was his debut, who knew the bass playing would more than double the value. oh I just got reminded the drummer was Bob Moses. He was a local drum Shaman, a genius. so that's a ridiculously good band. I believe you could have seen them jamming at Wallys down the street from Symphony Hall. recorded 12/75
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There's a boot from the Metheny/Pastorius/Moses trio playing a show somewhere in Boston in 1974. Opens with a version of "Bright Size Life" that's raw because they're still figuring the numbers out, stumbling a little on the solos. It's humbling and instructive that these guys you've always looked up also had dirt on their shoes.
 
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#25
Came here to post this interview. Absolutely fascinating.

As to the OP's question, the section of the interview where Pat is talking about learning under Gary Burton is key. Pat talks about his ideas around theory, the moving triads and how that has been the one constant in all of his work, how it connects to Ornette's thing... just an amazing amount of info for this format.

yodedude2 said:
there are some neat anecdotes about the creation & recording of 'bright size life' in the first minutes of this interview:
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#26
ardgedee said:
There's a boot from the Metheny/Pastorius/Moses trio playing a show somewhere in Boston in 1974. Opens with a version of "Bright Size Life" that's raw because they're still figuring the numbers out, stumbling a little on the solos. It's humbling and instructive that these guys you've always looked up also had dirt on their shoes.
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what dirt? that's a top premo jazz show c.1974, a journey of themes and solos. sorry it's not what you think of as perfect. Jeepers there's allot of amazing playing in there, a jaco harmonics and fuzz solo show, the drums are almost non existent except the ride and jaco's tone is muted by a lousy mic, and they are jamming, sometimes playing personal familiar licks, but just not the laser focus of the recording (which I think they had recorded already). So this was the live 1000th time playing it, not early development. They were flippant with it from familiarity.
 
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#28
BassBrass said:
what dirt? that's a top premo jazz show c.1974, a journey of themes and solos. sorry it's not what you think of as perfect. Jeepers there's allot of amazing playing in there, a jaco harmonics and fuzz solo show, the drums are almost non existent except the ride and jaco's tone is muted by a lousy mic, and they are jamming, sometimes playing personal familiar licks, but just not the laser focus of the recording (which I think they had recorded already). So this was the live 1000th time playing it, not early development. They were flippant with it from familiarity.
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sounds like he simply thought it was early on in the song's learning, and you are saying it's the thousandth time they played it (more or less).

That's the only difference - and he wasn't insulting them, he was admiring them, if I understood correctly.

Let's be honest here though - one of jaco's troubles was that he wasn't happy doing the same song hundreds of times the same way. Pat, maybe, maybe not. But Jaco, it made his brain hurt to do songs exactly the same way for hundreds of shows, specially as he lost control gradually in his mental health.

Either way, it's hardly an amazing performance - whether new to them or stale, it was a bootleg for a reason. STILL, it's very interesting and fascinating listening.
 
#29
BassBrass said:
what dirt? that's a top premo jazz show c.1974, a journey of themes and solos. sorry it's not what you think of as perfect. Jeepers there's allot of amazing playing in there, a jaco harmonics and fuzz solo show, the drums are almost non existent except the ride and jaco's tone is muted by a lousy mic, and they are jamming, sometimes playing personal familiar licks, but just not the laser focus of the recording (which I think they had recorded already). So this was the live 1000th time playing it, not early development. They were flippant with it from familiarity.
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It was two years before "Bright Size Life", and so it was jarring to me the first time I heard it. I totally agree with you though, and will add that I could only dream of that level of performance myself; I'm absolutely not trying to bring them down.
 
#30
Step 1. Listen A LOT. I wouldn’t bother trying to learn any of it until you can hum along or tap along etc.

Step 2. There is no reason to not use a lead sheet as a point of reference. The melody probably won’t be spot on but the chord changes should be pretty close and that’s what you need most.

Step 3. Before you transcribe to paper you’ll want to be able to play the riff first. If you can find an app like the Amazing Slow Downer or I think YouTube premium also always you to create loops and slow down songs utilize that to Internalize the rhythm and workout the licks one measure or phrase at a time.

Step 4. you can use the lead sheet to analyze the chords and how they’re interacting with each other and how the instruments are playing around them, it would also be helpful to get together with someone who really knows theory so they can help explain it or at least get together with a key/guitar player so you can hear the chords.

ideally this wouldn’t be your first transcription though and definitely not your first Jaco song, like everyone, Jaco has his bag of tricks so if you can build some of that vocabulary first it’ll save you some time. A lot of his first solo album is much more approachable than bright size life.

Don’t be afraid to find someone to take lessons with to help you get through this. I’m a professional and I’ve been playing for 15 years and teaching for 6 but I still setup the occasional lesson with a real guru to help fill in the gaps. There is always something to learn.
 
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#32
Approach this tune from a Pat Metheny point of view instead of a Jaco perspective. Pat has played this with Christian McBride as well and his version with Mark Eagan is very comparable with Jaco.

Just remember that when he recorded BSL, he was just coming out of working with Gary Burton who used Eberhard Weber who is freltess or cello like in his tone. I think he sought out that kind of bass player.

Jaco is isn't really doing anything unique as far as basslines . Lots of root 5th as you do not have room for much because of the fast chord movement. (don't worry about his solo to being with ) in fact if you want to really hear the harmony, then listen to Pat's comping during Jaco's solo. That's your chord structure right there.

And like the first responder @Jazz Ad said the feel of the rhythm is important listen to Bob Moses's kick - because unlike other jazz drum parts, he does not lead with the ride cymbal.

I auditioned for a band doing a lot of Pat M when I was in California. Knowing to play this is expected.
 
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#34
nonohmic said:
Well, if I'm transcribing a solo over a well known jazz standard at least there is a song form to guide you. Even though there may be a lot of variation.

In something like the playing on this album, how can you even tell what the form is? Or how far they are straying from it?

Or is ii just a bunch of notes with no underlying harmony?
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There is 100% a form and harmony to pretty much every track on that album. The guitar and bass are outlining it. Sounds like it has just gone over your head. There are charts out there for these tunes, so search for them to see the form/harmony of the tune and then reference back to the track.
 
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#35
See below:

Screen-Shot-2019-07-27-at-10.41.15-PM.png
 
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#37
ardgedee said:
It was two years before "Bright Size Life", and so it was jarring to me the first time I heard it. I totally agree with you though, and will add that I could only dream of that level of performance myself; I'm absolutely not trying to bring them down.
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actually One year, but I was a year off too. According to Pat's story and the records of ECM recording, 12/75 it was the day after the Burton recordings first time Jaco was in Europe and Jaco hadn't slept much. Interesting it Is a sleeper recording, more valued today than it was at the time. I knew itand them because it was local and a filmed show- Gary Burton with guest guitarist Pat M appeared on Public Broadcasting, channel 2.
Gary Burton, vibraharp; Mick Goodrick, guitar; Pat Metheny, electric 12-string guitar; Steve Swallow, bass; Bob Moses, drums. Tonstudio Bauer, Ludwigsburg, West Germany, December, 1975
Pat Metheny, 6-string guitar, electric 12-string guitar; Jaco Pastorius, bass; Bob Moses, drums. Tonstudio Bauer, Ludwigsburg, West Germany, December, 1975
ECM recordings 75/76 ECM Records Discography: 1975-1976
I think youll like this performance better Falling Grace 17:24 has a bass solo by the author, his Como In Vietnam is good too...
 
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#39
Depending on the accuracy of the information contained within it, if what was shared in Jaco's biography written by Bill Milkowski is indeed 100% true, Jaco would not have been able to tone down his energy and creativity to fit within the 'ECM standards' for a buttoned-up, chill vibe. In the book, it's discussed that Metheny was almost considering having Dave Holland play bass on the record instead of Jaco because of label pressure regarding the 'vibe' of the music. Jaco took the energy up 110%, and even what is on the record is tame compared with what they were doing on live gigs. I have friends who were in Boston in the late 70s hearing Gary Burton, Metheny, etc. and they confirmed that those shows were crazy energetic that Metheny/Moses/Pastorius were playing.

Paul New said:
Every time I listen to that I’m so struck by Jaco’s sound, that everything else is just distracting background noise. Maybe not everything.

It’s amazing that he didn’t become an ECM artist after that.
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