BTB 5 String, full step down

[knuckle_head]

TapyTap - a .049 for D

AmadeusXeno - Yours is a loaded statement/question. Histrionics explain why all those who have gone before us have used what they use - the sets we play are gauged the same as they were 60 years ago. And most everyone wants to cop the sound they've heard, or know as bass.

String makers have been selling sets with lower tension E strings since the 50's. This has been in part to compensate for rigs that even today cannot present the actual fundamental of that E. Back in the day rigs didn't even have the capacity to present even the second harmonic of a low E. Here's why;

If a string is looser it moves more - it is louder as a result. If it's louder it is more present when reproduction begins to fail. In a way it's like bumping up the low fundamental on an EQ, except it is done physically with the instrument.

We are blessed with rigs that today easily give us an octave more room on bottom to use since the rigs of the 50's provided. Current era, we have a similar constraint in reproduction for B much as we had in reproduction of the E in the 50's. This is all physics readily proved out by the analysis of speaker enclosure designs alone over time.

As to why you want to exceed manufactured tension when playing, when a string is made the individual wraps are basically touching along the length of the string. As the string is under tension as it is wound, when you release the tension on it the winds collapse on themselves. It makes the string that much more rigid as a result. If at pitch the string is not pulled beyond the tension it was made at the string is not as flexible as it can or (IMO) should be - it is robbed of overtones that some find pleasant and useful.

Nothing wrong with what's come before, but that's not to say there isn't a better way.

 

[knuckle_head]

This is what you WANT your bass string to do;

YouTube link

 

[AmadeusXeno]

As to why you want to exceed manufactured tension when playing, when a string is made the individual wraps are basically touching along the length of the string. As the string is under tension as it is wound, when you release the tension on it the winds collapse on themselves. It makes the string that much more rigid as a result. If at pitch the string is not pulled beyond the tension it was made at the string is not as flexible as it can or (IMO) should be - it is robbed of overtones that some find pleasant and useful.

Do you have any sites or anything that can back this up? I'm not saying you are not correct on this I'd just like to see some proof since I've never herd of this before.

 

[knuckle_head]

Do you have any sites or anything that can back this up? I'm not saying you are not correct on this I'd just like to see some proof since I've never herd of this before.

I base this on the research I did before becoming a string maker - I am blessed with a business partner that has been making strings for almost 20 years. He's wound strings for three major manufacturers and he stepped me through their processes.

I can't prove it beyond that . . .

 

[AmadeusXeno]

So are you saying that all the other string manufacturers and countless bass players around the world are wrong with the 125 low B strings that they are using? I'm trying to figure out how your claims are justified. What did you use for research? Doesn't this extra high tension from what the standard is put extra tension on the neck increasing the chances of making it bow more then wanted?

 

[knuckle_head]

I'm not saying anyone is wrong - I'm saying there is a different way to approach it if you choose to.

A good number of manufacturers (not all) exceed playing tensions in the manufacturing process and string life and tone suffer as a result (IMO). This has positive affects that some players actually prefer - in making a string under 35 or 40 pounds of tension or more and tuning to pitch beneath that the string feels stiffer under your fingers. It gives the illusion of higher tension and some players really like that. It also tones down upper transients and some players like that as well.

There is no added tension on any neck - a .105 has the same pull on a bass whether it was made at 25 pounds of tension or 45 pounds of tension. Again, it's a physics thing. Mass dictates this and not the manufacturing process.

I used my 10 years experience in designing strings for instruments I build that required custom made strings, and the near-20 years my partner has in the manufacturing process. I had little else to go on as these are the things manufacturers hold dear - not unlike recipes or secret formulas.

There's nothing wrong with what you know and do - but there are indeed other ways.

 

[TapyTap]

TapyTap - a .049 for D

Interesting...I would have expected a bit higher tension to go with that .124....most likely the .052. Fretless over fretted make a difference to you when choosing string gauge?

 

[oniman7]

Subbed for massive interest. Will be picking up my BTB in exactly a week and was wondering the same thing. A good bassist friend of mine has one and says its great for low A tuning and it's not muddy sounding/

 

[knuckle_head]

Interesting...I would have expected a bit higher tension to go with that .124....most likely the .052. Fretless over fretted make a difference to you when choosing string gauge?

It's a .124 balanced 4 string set.

Edit; changed my mind and tuned it to A using a .136 - pretty good on a 36" scale length. davet999 - you could get away with a .142

 

[TapyTap]

It's a .124 balanced 4 string set.

Thanks.

 

[nukes_da_bass]

Wait...your guitards turn down a step to D and you want a 5 string to be in A? This does not compute with me. If they are in D and your 5 string is already in B which is a step and a half LOWER than the guitards, you do not have to tune down.
Unless your guitards are in A so you meant a step down from B? Are they 7 string guitards? Can they not handle your fingers out of position from theirs? Is transposing that big an issue? Think like a horn player, horn players are taught to transpose to and from Concert Key from infancy.
As for B strings I have become very happy with a .125 I used to think a B needed to be a bridge cable but I think I was wrong.

 

[tylerwylie]

I'm using knuckle_head's strings on two of my basses right now and I'd have to say it really stands out, a .124 drop tuned set for CGCF and - at the moment - a .136 balanced 6 string set on my Bongo and the .136 for the low B is phenomenal. I have a DR set on my 5 string, the .125 MM Fat Beams, they sound great but there's still no comparison. I have a .142 balanced 6 string set as well, that will be going on my 6 string once these .136 strings don't sound good anymore, which should be about December at this rate

 

[knuckle_head]

If they are in D and your 5 string is already in B which is a step and a half LOWER than the guitards, you do not have to tune down.

Unless your guitards are in A so you meant a step down from B?

It's exactly the same if your guitars tune to E and you have a B string - just one step lower.

 

[oniman7]

It's possible that they're tuning in DGCFAD. In this case, he might want to tune is bass ADGCF, the same way a 5 string bass in a normal band would tune to BEADG. Off the top of my head, Dream Theater does this in Panic Attack, as well as a lot of Symphony X stuff. Then again, they both use 7 string guitars from time to time.