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Budget lightweight doubler amp

#21
KeyBoneSax said:
I think I have more work ahead to get UB going with amped instruments. My second hand Realist Copperhead (self installed) was either just static or horrible feedback into my little EB practice amp. I'll be returning that unit and going with a new professionally installed one.
Does anyone have experience with the Docking Station accessory? is it worth it for the convenience of onboard volume control? Or just another link in the chain to fail?
Will an HPF-Pre help with my howling feedback? (low frequency, but very audible)
Click to expand...
TB effect builders @fdeck and @Azure Skies (Broughton) have units that may help, especially the phase reverse switch.

Variable input impedance for DB amplification
I've got an idea that I will test. It will have a HPF (25 - 190 Hz), level (off to +20 dB), phase switch, and impedance (1M to 10M). I'll try to figure out a way to make the footswitch function to be selectable as true bypass or mute.
 
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#22
The local MusicGoRound in Duluth Ga had a Clarus 2R, old version, for 350.00. I traded in a 6 unit rack case with 50 lb. of stuff I wasn't using along with 70.00 and now a I have both a 5 lb. back up for the MarkBass 250 Blackline and maybe an UB, keyboard, all-round acoustic amp. So far so good. I still prefer the MarkBass for electric bass, but the Clarus will do in a pinch. It feels VERY rugged. More so than the MarkBass. With a pre-amp it would be a more fair comparison. Still need a new pickup for the UB.
 
#23
KeyBoneSax said:
Still need a new pickup for the UB.
Click to expand...

Since my earlier comments I've pretty much completely revamped my DB setup, some notes on pickups and such below.

For amplification I'm running an EA doubler II, the built in HPF and notch filter negated the need for the separate preamp which is good, and it has a bit more clean power than the PF amp I was using. I also started using a berg CN212 for loud gigs, HD112 for quieter gigs. Great sounding cabs and they pair well with the EA and uprights.

On my basses I've gotten away from bridge wing pickups, the underwood was too clacky so I started using just one side which sounded better, but it was hard to balance between pizz and arco. Tried out a KNA DB-1 as a stopgap, sounded basically like the underwood with one side in. Ended up putting a full circle into my bass and that was a revelation. The full circle was great for a balanced pizz/arco sound, got nice and loud with very little feedback, and what did get noisy on my bass was easy to notch out with the EA.

That bass developed some rattles which are still in need of repair, though I believe we've narrowed down the issue. Ended up grabbing a different bass and installing a DG realist lifeline. Similar to the FC in that it sits in the bridge adjuster, but a little more deep/low sound and less of the mid range of the FC, but still a nicely balanced pickup. I've not tried the regular copper realist, though a cellist I play with uses one and he deals with a lot of low feedback issues like you described above. The luthier who installed my pickup/has been doing the work on my basses said that can be a common issue (LF feedback at volume) with that style of pickup as well.

The lifeline style has not given me trouble and at my last two gigs (one outdoors higher volume, one indoors lower volume but a very boomy room) I had zero trouble getting volume without feedback using the lifeline. Both the lifeline and the FC work without trouble direct into the input of the EA amp (1Mohm input impedance).

Don't know if any of that helps your pickup search, but there it is.
 
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#24
KeyBoneSax said:
The local MusicGoRound in Duluth Ga had a Clarus 2R, old version, for 350.00. I traded in a 6 unit rack case with 50 lb. of stuff I wasn't using along with 70.00 and now a I have both a 5 lb. back up for the MarkBass 250 Blackline and maybe an UB, keyboard, all-round acoustic amp. So far so good. I still prefer the MarkBass for electric bass, but the Clarus will do in a pinch. It feels VERY rugged. More so than the MarkBass. With a pre-amp it would be a more fair comparison. Still need a new pickup for the UB.
Click to expand...
I used to have a Clarus SL (the tiny one channel version), and I found that a Sansamp really woke it up when I used it for electric bass.
 
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#25
coreyfyfe said:
Since my earlier comments I've pretty much completely revamped my DB setup, some notes on pickups and such below.

For amplification I'm running an EA doubler II, the built in HPF and notch filter negated the need for the separate preamp which is good, and it has a bit more clean power than the PF amp I was using. I also started using a berg CN212 for loud gigs, HD112 for quieter gigs. Great sounding cabs and they pair well with the EA and uprights.

On my basses I've gotten away from bridge wing pickups, the underwood was too clacky so I started using just one side which sounded better, but it was hard to balance between pizz and arco. Tried out a KNA DB-1 as a stopgap, sounded basically like the underwood with one side in. Ended up putting a full circle into my bass and that was a revelation. The full circle was great for a balanced pizz/arco sound, got nice and loud with very little feedback, and what did get noisy on my bass was easy to notch out with the EA.

That bass developed some rattles which are still in need of repair, though I believe we've narrowed down the issue. Ended up grabbing a different bass and installing a DG realist lifeline. Similar to the FC in that it sits in the bridge adjuster, but a little more deep/low sound and less of the mid range of the FC, but still a nicely balanced pickup. I've not tried the regular copper realist, though a cellist I play with uses one and he deals with a lot of low feedback issues like you described above. The luthier who installed my pickup/has been doing the work on my basses said that can be a common issue (LF feedback at volume) with that style of pickup as well.

The lifeline style has not given me trouble and at my last two gigs (one outdoors higher volume, one indoors lower volume but a very boomy room) I had zero trouble getting volume without feedback using the lifeline. Both the lifeline and the FC work without trouble direct into the input of the EA amp (1Mohm input impedance).

Don't know if any of that helps your pickup search, but there it is.
Click to expand...
 
#26
The Realist I had looks the same as the Lifeline I see in photos. I don't know if my problems were due to the nature of the hardware, undetected problems (I bought it used), or my installation. I would try one again because so many people use them. But I will buy new and have it installed by the dealer, regardless of the solution I choose.
 
#27
KeyBoneSax said:
The Realist I had looks the same as the Lifeline I see in photos. I don't know if my problems were due to the nature of the hardware, undetected problems (I bought it used), or my installation. I would try one again because so many people use them. But I will buy new and have it installed by the dealer, regardless of the solution I choose.
Click to expand...

The realist copperhead you mentioned earlier in the thread is the foil one that goes under the foot, the lifeline is a U shaped piece that goes between the adjuster and the top of the bridge.

Copperhead (underfoot)
realist-transducer-bass-1.png


Lifeline (adjuster)
realist-lifeline.jpg
 
#28
Inara said:
I used to have a Clarus SL (the tiny one channel version), and I found that a Sansamp really woke it up when I used it for electric bass.
Click to expand...

Very believable. I had a Focus One for a while and built up a tube preamp for it for BG. Helped a ton for the surf-punk thing I was occasionally doing back then.
 
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#29
Well, I still don't have the DB pickup... but I ran across an EA Wizzy 12 for 300 and thought that would be a good all round piece to have. It sounded OK with the Clarus and EB. Not great, but OK. Actually sounded pretty good with the Clarus and acoustic guitar, mandolin. I haven't tried the keyboard yet, but that will probably be OK too. One hand carry. Right now it's sitting on top of the Peavey 2X10. both plugged into the Markbass Blackline 250. I might have trouble getting the volume down to home concert level, but it sounds good.
 
#30
Craigslist provided a v1 Sansamp Bass Driver for about half the price of a new v2. Very versatile with the Clarus 2R. I can bring it into the effects return on the instrument channel at 'line level', in the the 'low gain' instrument input at instrument level, or into the XLR input on the mic channel and power the bass driver with phantom power from the Clarus 2R. Very usable BG tone. The Wizzy 12 would not be my first choice of cab though. And if your going to bring another cab, might as well bring the Markbass head with it. But... as a backup or 'maybe we'll need BG'... yeah it works fine for that.
 
#31
Well, Santa came through with a new Gage Realist Copperhead and Docking station. I had the fine folks at Atlanta Violins do the install. I'm very happy with it so far. Straight into the high gain channel of the Clarus 2R, a tweak of the Notch control to quiet the open D, and on into the EA Wizzy 12. Much better than the used version that I installed myself. And the docking station gives me on board volume control.
 
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#32
I tried the Copperhead into the Markbass Blackline with Peavey 2X10... the BG rig... Loses a lot. I think I can use the Sansamp with BG through the UB rig, but going the other direction doesn't work nearly as well. Next time I take things apart I'll try the UB rig through the Peavey 2X10 and see how much the speaker(s) are contributing. I expect quite a bit, but who knows.
 
#34
coreyfyfe said:
What do you use for a preamp with the underwood and cab with your shuttles? I've got an underwood on my DB and have been using an older fishman EQ with my PF-500 and ampeg 1x12s, but the last few gigs I did with it I haven't really been thrilled with the tone. I had a PF-500 and an SWR (I think?) cab provided as backline for one and had similar results. I think the underwood > fishman DI sound has been fine when I've gone that route as well, but we've done a few gigs recently where I needed some more amp volume and had less PA support and just wasn't thrilled with the combination. Or maybe I just want an excuse for more gear.
Click to expand...

No preamp needed with the Shuttle or Shuttlemax heads. The input impedance is high enough that no pre is needed.
 
#36
I play amplified DB for a living as well as EB.IMO---the amps you've mentioned sound good on EB and not so good on upright. The AI is a decent choice--love it on upright---not as much on electric. I really like the new EA Doubler II and the Tecamp Puma 900. Much better than the other choices IMO. Look for used ones here.
 
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#37
Mike Arnopol said:
I play amplified DB for a living as well as EB.IMO---the amps you've mentioned sound good on EB and not so good on upright. The AI is a decent choice--love it on upright---not as much on electric. I really like the new EA Doubler II and the Tecamp Puma 900. Much better than the other choices IMO. Look for used ones here.
Click to expand...
So far I'm happy with the tone I'm getting from each rig. But I didn't do a very good job of building a 'doubling' rig. Instead I have two separate rigs that I like, one for UB, one for BG. But the doubler rig for BG with a sansamp into the DB rig isn't really up to the same standard as the Markbass. But... it could be the speaker choices. If that's the case, then I'll never be satisfied with a single rig. If I have to carry both speakers, I may as well take both rigs.
 
#39
Mike Arnopol said:
I play amplified DB for a living as well as EB.IMO---the amps you've mentioned sound good on EB and not so good on upright. The AI is a decent choice--love it on upright---not as much on electric. I really like the new EA Doubler II and the Tecamp Puma 900. Much better than the other choices IMO. Look for used ones here.
Click to expand...

Been using the EA doubler II for a while now, really great amp for DB.
 
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