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Double Bass Buffer for my Upton Solo Piezo

W

Wayne Bergman

Jun 11, 2017
13
15
71
Sunshine Coast BC Canada
#1
I am in search of better sound for my upright for live stage and my question please is do i need a better buffer than I am currently using? I was trying to keep the cost down so when I bought a buffer for this Upton Piezo Pickup I bought a Radial Stage Bug SB4 to save a few bucks instead of buying the pricier the Fishman Stage EQ/DI Outboard Preamp. The Radial Stage Bug has an impedance of 5 M ohm and the Fishman has the full 10 M ohm input impedance rating so I am guessing this would be a better choice. The Radial helps with the quacking sound a bit, but I am still not happy with the sound. Any thoughts if I will have much of an improvement with the fisherman stage box over what i have now? I have also thought perhaps I should buy the Fishman Full Circle piezo pickups but I don’t want to spend too much money on this. My best guess is maybe try the Fishman stage box first as its cheaper than the Fishman pick ups and if it doesn’t work much better then perhaps after that resort to the Fishman Full Circle pickups....thanks in advance.....wayne





Oh I forgot to mention my amp is the TC Electronics BQ500 paired with a 12” Eminence 2512 250 Watt Neo 8ohm in a ported enclosure. Sorry for the long post ……..any tips much appreciated……….wayne……. Sunshine Coast BC Canada
 
#3
You are going to get a lot of different opinions on this.
My experience is that for my Underwood into the GK MB150E, 1
Mohm input impedance, I feel that I don’t need a preamp. I use a lot of eq on the amp.
For the Gage Copperhead? Foil pickup,
on my Eminence EUB, my Sarno Black Box set to 5 Mohm sounds best.
For this, there’s not much difference between 5 and 10 Mohm.
 
#6
I've been preparing a blog article on this topic, but I've been doing some response testing of the pickups in my possession, including an Upton Revolution Solo, and it should be quite forgiving of impedance. Even 1 MegOhm should be ample.
 
#7
I'd go back and check the installation of the pickup.
Upton's video on installation:

You may also want to try moving the pickup around a bit like the video hints at. Is it a tight fit or looser? Do you need to take more material away/add shims? Try it on the other side of the bridge. How does it sound when you turn it over so the RS is facing downward?
All these things cost practically nothing to do, you can widen bridge wing slots with emery boards and shim with manilla envelopes.
As has been said 5 MegaOhm should be enough impedance.
Are you powering the Radial Stage Bug when you're using it? Is the HPF filter on or off - that was the other questions I had when I read your first post. (no idea whether this would make a difference or not)
 
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#8
Thanks 41HZ, yes I did have my Radial Stage Bug powered, I have a rechargeble 48v that supplies the power through xlr. Also yes I did run a high pass filter which helped but only slightly. I will tinker with the position of the solo pick up more. I have ordered the Fishman Stage EQ/DI Outboard Preamp so when it arrives I can test it out, if it does not make. much difference I can return it to the store and pay the extra for the Full Circle option, might only cost an extra 125 buck after returning the Stage EQ if it doesnt help. Thanks also for the video, I did watch that at instal time and also another one Gary posted so pretty familiar with all the tweeking that can contribute to the changing of its workings.
 
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#9
Keep in mind that if you don't have bridge adjusters, the Full Circle will probably need to be installed professionally, at extra cost. If you do have bridge adjusters the Full Circle threads need to match the threads of your adjusters, so you'll need that information from whoever installed the bridge and adjusters. The Full Circle is user-installable in place of existing adjusters, but it's tricky and fragile. You can find lots of expertise about the Full Circle here in TB/DB, so speak up if you decide to go that route, preferably before you purchase so you can evaluate the project well.
 
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#10
I used one of those Upton pickups for awhile because I was playing in a loud latin jazz group and it cut though well. I've always found congas in particular to be a challenge. The fit to is crucial - in my case pretty loose with the logo side towards the bridge foot.
 
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#11
In my experience, the proximity of the pickup design to the strings has an effect on the tone of the pickup. The darkest pickup I’ve used, the old Realist that sits under the foot, sounded wooly and lacked highs, especially definition on the G string. The brightest pickups,which mounted near the top of the bridge between the strings, lacked lows and had a lot of artificial sounding string noise. The wing pick ups I have used were generally better than either of these, but still had too much high-end information. When I finally installed the full circle, which sets much closer to the body of the bass without being directly on the table, I knew I had found a sweet spot for me. As always, EEMMV.
 
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#12
So, on these wing style pickups, I try different soft materials between the pickup and the bridge, sandwiching the pickup. Materials like felt, leather, cork, and that 1/8" sheet craft foam like available at Walmart can filter/EQ a lot of the highs and upper mid, and balance out the signal response that feeds a quality preamp. Too tight a fit lets too much quack thru, too loose a fit looses volume, so the fit (as mentioned) matters a lot.
 
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#13
Wayne Bergman said:
I am in search of better sound for my upright for live stage and my question please is do i need a better buffer than I am currently using? I was trying to keep the cost down so when I bought a buffer for this Upton Piezo Pickup I bought a Radial Stage Bug SB4 to save a few bucks instead of buying the pricier the Fishman Stage EQ/DI Outboard Preamp. The Radial Stage Bug has an impedance of 5 M ohm and the Fishman has the full 10 M ohm input impedance rating so I am guessing this would be a better choice. The Radial helps with the quacking sound a bit, but I am still not happy with the sound. Any thoughts if I will have much of an improvement with the fisherman stage box over what i have now? I have also thought perhaps I should buy the Fishman Full Circle piezo pickups but I don’t want to spend too much money on this. My best guess is maybe try the Fishman stage box first as its cheaper than the Fishman pick ups and if it doesn’t work much better then perhaps after that resort to the Fishman Full Circle pickups....thanks in advance.....wayne





Oh I forgot to mention my amp is the TC Electronics BQ500 paired with a 12” Eminence 2512 250 Watt Neo 8ohm in a ported enclosure. Sorry for the long post ……..any tips much appreciated……….wayne……. Sunshine Coast BC Canada
Click to expand...
What kind of gigs are you playing, and what are your volume needs? This information is just as important as impedances and pickup selection.
 
#14
I keep the Upton pickup in my bag as a backup but have always found it kind of weird sounding unless you get it just right. As someone above mentioned, having it fairly loose in the wing with the logo down has also been the best sounding setup on my bass. I could generally get it sounding okay on gigs but I always felt like I had to spend time dialing it in every time I took the bass out.
 
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#15
That quacky-fingerboard "stringy" sound are mid-frequencies. Try turning yours all they way off of your amp's eq section and see what happens. If it's an over correction, bring them back up a little bit at a time.

I did that last week on a borrowed amp. Feels an odd thing to do, but it might be a free solution for you.
 
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#18
Jay as far as what kind of gigs and volume - its a 4 piece with no drums, not super loud by any means but with options from my BQ500 to FOH. Any extra volume issues to overcome is not high on my list right now its more just getting a decent sound. I use my amp as stage monitor going direct from my stage bug to amp then out of amp to house.
The tips from you all have been appreciated and these things I have heard before but it has encouraged me to tinker with tightness and positions for pickup placement further and I think I am actuallly getting closer to what works for my UB to sound OK. I will update after my fishman di arrives and further tinkering.
On a side note a few months ago I placed the pickup on the belly of the upright with finger pressure only, not too far from Gstring F hole, It sounded very good, I would have been totally satisfied with that sound however oddly enough the sound good not be duplicated by lightly glueing the pick up on its corners to the bass belly or by light clamping. It only worked with the human finger putting the pressure on the pickup, as I have only two hands that was not going to work. Very weird but made me think the pick up is able to deliver decent sound its just how to best have in place. Anyways the finger on the pickup on the bass belly I did not want to bring up as its maybe its kind of a red herring but for me I could see how the pick up has the ablility to make different sounds depening on how you mount it for sure. Just got frustrated & not really nailing it yet. ........thanks again.......i will chime in again if I make any breakthroughs.
 
#19
I’m on my 2nd Upton Rev solo. I appreciate the suggestions about flipping it over or adding some thin material. Might have to experiment.

TBH, I’m not happy at all with the sound. I thought maybe my old one was beat but the new one is just as gnarly sounding.

I believe the fit is a bit tighter due to the humidity so, not currently ideal. But I also don’t like how it seems to choke the tone on the bridge. I might need to file a little more out of the wing slot and bottom of the pup if I want to try this any more.

Anyway the OP asked about preamps. I’ve got a couple nice ones. Even through my subjectively fantastic Grace ALiX pre, the rev solo still sounds nasty.
 

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