The only thing about those reds is that they really conceal the grain and that's some gorgeous grain. You have nothing you need to hide on that body.
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Build II - Paradox MJ5 - New design!
- Thread starter roberthabraken
- Start date
Thanks!
Practice on scrap! I would personally dye it warm brown, sand back, wash a light wheat colour to add warmth and then go red. I would hate to see this go pink.msl:
Thanks for the advice. Warm brown as in nr. 156 from the above chart? Or darker? Not sure I can get such a wheat colour, but I sure did plan to stain it dark (almost black?), sand back and dye it red afterwards, to enhance the flame in the maple.
Thanks a lot, very flattering
Think I need to see the colours on a test piece in real life to really decide.. they only cost 5 euro each...Didn't know that. Would that still be the case if I stain it dark and sand that back on beforehand?
If the dyes are pretty cheap, buy a bunch because you can always mix and match. 152 looks like a nice candidate for a thin wash coat thinned out with the appropriate solvent (or water, which is technically a solvent I guess). I know you know this of course, but test out as many different combinations as you can on scrap.
My gut says a warm "Walnut-ish" brown for the figure accent because I find black can easily look too artificial and you quickly lose that 3D-ness turning beautiful figured Maple into something resembling a photo finish or a veneer. Most dyeing schedules seem to lose a lot of that natural chatoyance in figured Maple. I'd probably try tinted oils to maintain it, but this isn't my build of course. After sanding back the accent coat, a wash coat of wheat softens the remaining dye and provide a warmer base over which the final red goes.
I think it was from one of David Myka's posts where I picked up the idea of blending over dyes and letting each application work with the previous one. I really wish I had reference to that as opposed to just outlining the technique (badly). You might find the red goes over existing dyes badly so you need to check this out before committing anything to the workpiece.
When I first tried this, I was using a bunch of the Stewmac "ColorTone" dyes and found that after popping in say, a brown outer part of a sunburst I could soften and "move it outwards" when applying lighter colours into the centre. Somewhat backwards to conventional wisdom on this subject? I don't know....not really a big dye finisher but nonetheless the results and the process spoke for themselves. Getting hands on (well, gloved hands on) with how dyes work on figured woods was more educational than any number of internet posts of course.
I think that translating over the "look" in your head to the wood is easier than translating it into words and then trying to work that backwards into a finishing schedule. I would dearly love to reproduce the beautiful cross I have in my head of an "antique violin" burst crossed with a "honey burst".
Many more people with deeper knowledge than mine exist on here and various luthiery sites and I think red finishes do require a little more care to nail.
I'm not familiar with the staining/sanding/re-staining process, but these other guys seem knowledgable about that. I made my comment solely on looking at the samples - you can see the grain beneath the lighter colors but not beneath the reds - they look fairly opaque. As others have suggested, experimenting on scrap wood is the way to go.
There is also a wealth of info on finishing here:
Wood Finishes
I built the site but the info is from a variety of master woodworkers.
If anyone has good photos about the dying/staining/sanding/re-staining process I'd be glad to add it to the finishing site.
I just went trough all the 20 page hoping that i could see the finished bass!
Can't wait for you to finish it.... I am usually not into fancy boutique basses and flame tops, but your work is amazing!
Will you be taking orders? Any idea of price range?
Can't wait for you to finish it.... I am usually not into fancy boutique basses and flame tops, but your work is amazing!
Will you be taking orders? Any idea of price range?
Someone posted a video in another thread about enhancing the grain and figure....he said that you can enhance the reds with a concentrated version of the red. He said something about black leaving the grain to highlighted, but in a bad way...
The bright red will look so hot rod
I can't wait!
The bright red will look so hot rod
I can't wait!
Thanks Prosheta, I will take this into account. Actually, I think it's a good idea to swap the black for a more Walnut like warm brown. I will absolutely test the complete process before I'll attack the body. The traditional violin burst combined with a honey burst is a very good description of what I had in mind. But I do not want to aim too high, so that's why I try to shoot for a transparent red. But if all is going well, it may become a more complex dye job.
Thanks for the link, lot's of information I see
. I have found some good videos on the topic too, so I have enough material to study! I hope you've enjoyed the browsing
, but my pace is too slow to present the finished bass already... sorry. That's also the reason I do not take orders yet. I would very, very much like to do so, but my current speed of about 8 months from concept to where I am right now isn't realistic I guess. Two things could speed me up: buy some extra tools like a planer, thicknesser and a bandsaw and the fact that my prototype of the Paradox is more or less finished, so I wouldn't have to reinvent all this.So if the time is right, I sure will start taking orders! That would be a dream come true.
About price, I cannot say anything yet (and I may not, due to the forum rules), but for a starting luthier amateur, that wouldn't be too high (no boutique prices anyway).
Someone posted a video in another thread about enhancing the grain and figure....he said that you can enhance the reds with a concentrated version of the red. He said something about black leaving the grain to highlighted, but in a bad way...
The bright red will look so hot rod
Reading all replies and gathering more and more info, I start to see red isn't the easy colour I assumed it would be. Doesn't scare me per se, but I sure should start practicing soon. Thanks for your input too!
Me too
... but I did not have any time last few weeks. I had a small holiday, which I enjoyed very much by the way, lots and lots of work to be done (luckily, I like my job too) and some other social activities; all together reducing my shop time to zero.The status of the project is, that I have a square neck, a radiused sanding block (received the new one that I've bought via eBay, just wide enough) and some sandpaper lying around. I hope to be able to pick it all up shortly.
I'll keep you posted,
Rob
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That made me smile again, so it helped
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Don't you just love it when a plan comes together?
I haven't checked in here lately. You definitely have a plan coming together.
Might I say that I am drooling over here.
You, Sir, do very VERY nice work.
Thank you very much Dave!! I appreciate it. By the way, I sent you a PM via Facebook lately, as I just recently discovered your message over there (for some reason I did not receive a notification back then).
adam.beauchene
Commercial User
This one is really coming together, Rob! I always appreciate original designs in the LC, but it's not too often that I GAS for them... I want to play that! Especially if it was finished in transparent red 
This one is really coming together, Rob! I always appreciate original designs in the LC, but it's not too often that I GAS for them... I want to play that! Especially if it was finished in transparent red
Thanks! Great to have another vote for the transparent red, I need that
. One question by the way, I've been around here for a few years now, and I know very well what GAS means, but what does it stand for? 
roberthabraken said:Thanks! Great to have another vote for the transparent red, I need that
In guitar world it's 'gear acquisition syndrome' so i'd imagine it's the same for basses.
Btw, did you design the black swirly thing in your avatar? It's really cool, is it an f-hole or is it painted?
Oh, and I too would love to see this red, keep up the excellent work!
In guitar world it's 'gear acquisition syndrome' so i'd imagine it's the same for basses.
Btw, did you design the black swirly thing in your avatar? It's really cool, is it an f-hole or is it painted?
Oh, and I too would love to see this red, keep up the excellent work!
Thanks, another vote for red, great
. And thanks for the explanation on the term GAS. Yes, the bass in my avatar is my first build, not as fluent as this one in terms of design, but it came out well enough to start another one . What you're seeing in my avatar are the custom f-holes, it's not painted, but a real chambered body. See my portfolio for more pics (use the blue arrows when hovering over the pictures to navigate and click on the center of the picture to see the build log): Invalid Link Removed. This site needs an update, I'm not too happy with the usability aspect, but that has to wait..
roberthabraken said:Thanks, another vote for red, great
Actually I quite like the layout of your site.
I'm still undecided about whether I should do custom f-holes on my first build or not, you can check it out here: http://www.talkbass.com/forum/f101/first-eub-build-879652/
Maybe you can offer some advice? Thanks
Joe
Btw, this is one of the coolest basses I've ever seen
Actually I quite like the layout of your site.
I'm still undecided about whether I should do custom f-holes on my first build or not, you can check it out here: http://www.talkbass.com/forum/f101/first-eub-build-879652/
Maybe you can offer some advice? Thanks
Joe
Btw, this is one of the coolest basses I've ever seen
Thanks a lot, great to hear! I like your EUB design ideas and wood selection, I think an f-hole / chambered body would be a great addition. It's not really hard if you route out the chambers before glueing the top on and cut out the f-hole(s) with a copy saw or fret saw. I drew the design freehand on a piece of paper and scale it up to the right size. I also did a test run on a piece of scrap, same thickness as the top, to test the strength of the shape. Check out these posts:
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http://www.talkbass.com/forum/f101/first-eub-build-879652/
I probably should have done an exotic beer run and posted a salute picture but I have a one hour gig later so it's all good. I'm really enjoying this build Robert.
