• TalkBass has been independent since 1998. Add your voice.
    Create a free account to reply to discussions, view embedded media, and browse with fewer display ads.
    Join freeLog in
    Want zero display ads or expanded classifieds tools? Compare plans.

Build thread: walnut, maple, buckeye burl, pickups, bridge

So, in the area where the neck heel sticks up above the body,...do you completely sand the epoxy off of the sides of the neck, or do you smooth it out and leave it, then apply more epoxy or other finish to the neck?
This was one of the areas that gave me a hard time. Trying to remove the old finish from the neck, then sanding in those corners after the body wings were on,... I made a mess of the whole area.
 
I sand those corners with a square mdf block wrapped in 150 grit paper, pushing sideways against the neck. I do this after the fretboard is glued on. The sideways pressure sands the side of the neck and the fretboard flush and gets the epoxy cleaned up on the side of the little neck ledge. I do this before sanding the face of the body. Those square inside corners can be a pain to sand nicely, for sure.

The whole instrument (minus the fretboard face) is going to get satin oil based poly as a finish. To be honest, I don't really get too concerned about cleaning up the epoxy on the side of the neck ledge since the poly will go over the epoxy easily. On this build I'm really only using the epoxy for protection and pore filling on the burl. I know some people use epoxy on an entire instrument to grain fill but I'm only putting it on the burl for this build and leaving the grain unfilled elsewhere. I like the "natural" look and feel of open grain pores with a thin satin finish otherwise.
 
Okay @dwizum I gotta back up a bit here, sorry. apparently yesterday was far too busy for me, because I guess I missed everything that happened here on the ol' forums. :meh:

Let's go back to your early posts. Here's a pile of questions I had reading through this thread -
  1. Care to share where you purchased that and to what extent it lightened your wallet?
  2. So are you saying you "jointed" the edge in your sled before you resawed it? Why not after?
  3. I'm guessing you still have another top from this billet, right? It was 2" thick and you took 1/2" off (two 'panels' of 1/4" thickness). that leaves another 1.5" of burl laying around still speaking to you, huh?
  4. Did you pull the two 1/4" panels off the same side, or did you take one off each side? I'm just wondering how the bookmatching worked out from how/where it was cut, more education for myself here.
  5. Okay, pickup cavities. How did you go about cutting out those so you could save the tops like that? Scroll saw? Coping saw? How do you stay so straight on the cuts?
  6. So you glued the wings and top on pretty early in the build, huh? I ask this because I feel like I did this too soon and now I'm struggling to tackle things like side dots.
Okay, now for a couple random thoughts/comments that aren't questions -
  • Holy crap dude! This build is STUNNING! :cool:
  • Holy crap dude, that top is amazeballs!!! :drool:
  • Holy crap dude! :roflmao:
  • Did I say holy crap yet?!?!? :roflmao: :laugh: :roflmao:
 
The answer is,....7

tenor.gif
 
Okay @dwizum I gotta back up a bit here, sorry. apparently yesterday was far too busy for me, because I guess I missed everything that happened here on the ol' forums. :meh:

Let's go back to your early posts. Here's a pile of questions I had reading through this thread -
  1. Care to share where you purchased that and to what extent it lightened your wallet?


I bought this burl slice on ebay. The seller was roxy342279. They have a lot of buckeye burl but most of it is pretty weird shapes or sizes, or pretty rotten. I think those factors keep their prices way down below what most other vendors have for buckeye burl slices. At the time I bought it, I'd been watching for a nice piece at a reasonable price for several months, more or less casually. I paid $87 for this slice which I think was a screaming hot deal. I've seen guitar-oriented vendors selling single bookmatched tops for $400+. Although, most of the "instrument grade" stuff you see is probably much less punky than this piece. I feel like the bidding stayed down on this piece because people get scared by the seller pointing out that there was a large punky section. I'm not afraid of punk since I know I can handle it with resin or other methods and end up with a great result. I think most people casually looking at this stuff don't realize how easy it is to save punky wood.

So are you saying you "jointed" the edge in your sled before you resawed it? Why not after?

Jointing the edge of the billet before resawing serves a couple functions. First, it gives you a known-good edge. That can be helpful when resawing. The known-good edge goes down against the bandsaw table. I didn't show this, but I also planed one face of it flat (it was very nearly flat to begin with). Having one flat face and one true edge makes resawing a cake walk since you have good surfaces to hold against the fence and the table on the saw. This stuff sawed so easily, and so true, and my resaw blade leaves such a good surface finish on softer wood like this, that I didn't even sand or plane it off the saw, I went straight to the epoxy work.

Also, jointing before you resaw means the bookmatched panels are very close to being jointed themselves, if not perfect. I just drag them over a sanding board a few times to get a tight seam. It's easier to joint one thick panel than to joint lots of thin boards.

I'm guessing you still have another top from this billet, right? It was 2" thick and you took 1/2" off (two 'panels' of 1/4" thickness). that leaves another 1.5" of burl laying around still speaking to you, huh?

Probably two more bass sized tops. And I trimmed a chunk off the end of the slice that is probably 12 - 14" long, maybe a bit more. Plenty big enough for a few ukulele tops, or mini guitars, or pickups, or who knows what else. I'm not sure what I'm going to do with the bass-sized pieces yet. Probably put them on a shelf and forget about them until they start speaking again. This particular bass is going on Reverb once it's done. I know this is probably sacrilege to say around these parts, but I don't really have the itch to build for myself right now. I have the original bass this one is a copy of as my main bass and I like it so much I haven't touched another one of my own basses in months. I do have faint brainstorm ideas about what I want to build for myself in the future, but none of my ideas include burl tops. It's not that I don't like them, I just don't have any ideas for myself that they really fit with.

Did you pull the two 1/4" panels off the same side, or did you take one off each side? I'm just wondering how the bookmatching worked out from how/where it was cut, more education for myself here.

They're off the same side, in sequence. That definitely gives the best match, especially with crazy burls like this. Because I didn't even sand them, the only "offset" between the two show faces right now is the thickness of the saw kerf, which is really small on my resaw blade, but it's still enough that there are obvious (but small) mismatches in the figure. Taking boards off opposite sides of a burl like this would make for a huge mismatch. The burl changes width by several inches over it's 2" thickness and the patch of steel blue grain totally changes size and shape.

Okay, pickup cavities. How did you go about cutting out those so you could save the tops like that? Scroll saw? Coping saw? How do you stay so straight on the cuts?

I cut them by hand with a jeweler's coping saw and a fine blade. Cutting through burl is really easy, even by hand. It only took a few minutes. Straight lines just by sight. Draw a pencil line, notch the start, and make the cut. Keep the "inner" edge of the kerf on the center of the line, job done. I size the pencil lines such that the outer edge of the kerf is right on the very edge of the nominal size for the pickup shells. That gives a hair of wiggle room that gets shaved off when the cavities are routed, since the cavities are slightly bigger than the shells. I taper the pickup shells top to bottom (like EMG and many other makers do) in order to account for the difference in size between the cap pieces and the cavities. So, the result is that the top surface of the shells is slightly under the nominal dimension, and the bottom of the shells is right on the nominal dimension. This sounds complicated but it works out easily in practice. I make the walnut "box" right at the nominal dimension then glue on the caps. The caps sit just inside the edge of the walnut box because they're slightly smaller than the box. Then I just sand a taper in to the side of the box until that slight lip disappears. Sometimes if the saw isn't quite straight or my cut line wiggles a bit I end up with a little void. I just fill it with dust and glue, it disappears into a burl like this. It's much harder to get "clean" woods like curly maple to look good when cut out as caps like this (ask me how I know).

So you glued the wings and top on pretty early in the build, huh? I ask this because I feel like I did this too soon and now I'm struggling to tackle things like side dots.

Yeah, this is just the basic process I've always used:

- dimension rough lumber for neck blank, glue it up, cut it to final dimensions, cut the "step" in the top for the fretboard, cut the scarf and glue it back on, true up the top of the neck, route the truss rod channel
- glue on headstock ears, glue on headstock veneer, rough cut the headstock to shape, rough cut the neck shape, rough carve the neck
- dimension the stock for the wings, rough cut the wing profiles, glue the wings on
- get the fretboard ready: resaw, thickness sand, plane the radius, cut the slots, cut the taper. Drill and glue in position markers on face
- get the body top ready - resaw, cut pickup cavities if doing so, glue up, rough cut perimeter, glue on the body
- route the cavities, route the body perimeter, roundover the body perimeter
- glue on the fretboard
- finish carve the neck, finish carve the heel, route the headstock, thickness the headstock
- side dots on the neck

That gets us up to about the point the woodworking is done and it becomes a game of finishing and installing.

I use a tiny hand held pin vise to drill the side marker dots. Mark with a pencil, dimple with a punch, then drill with the pin vise.

Okay, now for a couple random thoughts/comments that aren't questions -
  • Holy crap dude! This build is STUNNING! :cool:
  • Holy crap dude, that top is amazeballs!!! :drool:
  • Holy crap dude! :roflmao:
  • Did I say holy crap yet?!?!? :roflmao: :laugh: :roflmao:

Thanks! :D:D
 
While the epoxy is curing I figured I'd spend some more time on the bridge.

I will emphasize that making simple metal parts like this, from easy to work metals, is much easier than it looks. If you can put a bass together, a bridge like this will be easy, I promise!

The basic design is like a high mass Fender style bridge, but with the heavy bar across the back as a separate piece from the bottom plate. Mostly for simplicity. The materials are 360 brass rod, in 1/2" square for the rear bar, and 5/16" square for the saddles. The bottom plate is 1/16" thick 6061 aluminum. 360 brass is literally like cutting hard butter, it's the best behaved metal on the planet. 6061 aluminum is pretty easy to work as well, not as gummy when filing and cutting as other types of aluminum.

I showed the anchor bar on the last page. It has holes down through from the top for three mounting screws and holes front to back for string mounting and the intonation screws for the saddles. I also filed a very gentle curve profile from end to end. The intonation screw holes are drilled larger from the front side so the screws can move to allow the saddle height to be adjusted.

For the saddles, I marked out holes for two grub screws per saddle on the top side, and a single hole on the back for the intonation screw. I drilled and tapped the holes then filed a profile on the top surface before I cut them apart.

IMG_20210713_182354.jpg


IMG_20210713_182717.jpg


IMG_20210713_185851.jpg


I sanded all the brass parts up to 800 grit abranet and I'll leave them like that for now. Then I cut the saddles apart and mocked it up on a rectangle of aluminum.

IMG_20210713_195054.jpg


Tomorrow I'll clean the cut edges on the saddles up and finish the bottom plate, then it'll be done.

Probably a total of two hours in this bridge start to finish. Not too bad.
 
you're killin' me with the beautiful stuff, @dwizum --- not to mention your 'eye' and your skills! really cool!
I was going to say the same, but I didn't want it to go to his head.

On a serious note, I learn so much from reading these threads, from many of the builders here, even if I don't realise it at the time, it may give me an idea for something later.

I also like the Italian Engineering in post 12. My mechanic friend Gibbo (since passed) used to laugh that my best ideas came out of nowhere and I'd scramble to find a piece of paper or a napkin (hence the IE term, best ideas are at lunch) to sketch them out. I started using school A4 notebooks later and have a couple of hundred of them, mainly EE designs. I need to start one for guitar/bass building as I have a ton of ideas, especially now we're back in lockdown here and have little better to do.

Will look forward to seeing how this finishes out. Cheers.
 
I was going to say the same, but I didn't want it to go to his head.
:laugh: i get that --- but this cat is on a roll! :laugh: ....

the level of creative talent and craftsmanship among the builders/luthiers here has always amazed me...i'm a 'forever' fan! and the support/fixes you cats give to us 'civilians' is priceless. ;) :thumbsup:

it took me longer to type this out than it did to actually do the epoxy work. I think the real key is processing it all mentally ahead of time, getting tools ready, having everything laid out and at hand so you can dive in!
:D i get that, too. pretty amazing --- thanks for sharing the ride! :thumbsup:
 
...I will emphasize that making simple metal parts like this, from easy to work metals, is much easier than it looks. If you can put a bass together, a bridge like this will be easy, I promise!....
I hope you are right, because I'm gonna need to manufacture something for the Diva build I'm doing. There really aren't any readily available bridges for that application. I'll be honest, I'm not scared. Years of building racecars has taught me a few things, but none of that was as small or tedious. But I am nervous. Again, something about the bar around here. I can see it up there, just can't see me reaching it.... :eek:
 
  • Like
Reactions: dwizum
I also like the Italian Engineering in post 12. My mechanic friend Gibbo (since passed) used to laugh that my best ideas came out of nowhere and I'd scramble to find a piece of paper or a napkin (hence the IE term, best ideas are at lunch) to sketch them out. I started using school A4 notebooks later and have a couple of hundred of them, mainly EE designs. I need to start one for guitar/bass building as I have a ton of ideas, especially now we're back in lockdown here and have little better to do.

I have to force myself to write stuff down these days or else I lull myself into thinking I'll remember it, and I don't. That notebook is pickup design notes. I keep it open on my pickup bench to remind myself to write everything down. Because it's there, and open all the time, it becomes an impromptu work surface too, since my bench is dark brown and it's nice to have the contrast of the white paper.

I hope you are right, because I'm gonna need to manufacture something for the Diva build I'm doing. There really aren't any readily available bridges for that application. I'll be honest, I'm not scared. Years of building racecars has taught me a few things, but none of that was as small or tedious. But I am nervous. Again, something about the bar around here. I can see it up there, just can't see me reaching it.... :eek:

A Diva style would be pretty fun, and it's a pretty flowy artistic design which I think gives you some nice lattitude. Aren't the original Diva bridges just a set of saddles sitting in a slot with string through ferrules behind them? And pretty much all wood, except for the ferrules?

I had half an hour this morning and just sort of played around with the nearly complete bridge. Propped it up on the bass, moved the saddles, looked at it from different angles. I'm going to make a few changes. It's probably fine the way it is, functionally speaking, but I don't think it really fits 100% visually. It almost looks a little too minimalist/simple or vintage-y for the rest of the instrument. Stay tuned...
 
...
A Diva style would be pretty fun, and it's a pretty flowy artistic design which I think gives you some nice lattitude. Aren't the original Diva bridges just a set of saddles sitting in a slot with string through ferrules behind them? And pretty much all wood, except for the ferrules?
...
For the most part, yes. But there's also a "rail" there that the saddles sit on -
Marleaux-Diva-Big.jpg

In my mind, the Marleaux design doesn't leave room for intonation. It seems kind of like an acoustic where-in you've "got what you got" so to speak. I don't know if I want to accept this or try to modify it.
 
Personally - I would do something really close to that. Route a channel across the bridge area on the fingerboard (?). Use a known-good bass that's properly set up and intonated to get a length for the highest and lowest string and set that as the center line. Route the channel really wide - like 1/4" or 3/8" - and then make saddle(s) that fit the width. You could file the saddles on the front or back side to move the intonation point forwards or backwards, or file the bottom to adjust the action.

The saddle could be just one long rectangle bar of stock, like an acoustic guitar. Or you could start with one long bar and cut it into four pieces to get a separate saddle for each string. That way, if you have to make an adjustment, you only need to pop one out. You could even make a couple extra with slightly different heights or witness points and just swap them.

That probably seems scary or crude to people used to electric basses with screw-adjustable bridges, but coming from an acoustic instrument background, it's pretty normal and not a big deal.
 
For the most part, yes. But there's also a "rail" there that the saddles sit on -
View attachment 4334337
In my mind, the Marleaux design doesn't leave room for intonation. It seems kind of like an acoustic where-in you've "got what you got" so to speak. I don't know if I want to accept this or try to modify it.
As long as it's pretty close, the rest of the intonation will be in your ear and fingers. :D
 
Quiet couple of days but I did get the body trimmed and routed to shape, and I routed the pickup and control cavities.

IMG_20210718_174817.jpg


I still need to cut the "lugs" down quite a bit with my second template (I ran out of time!) This bass will have a tilting magnetic cover on the control cavity, so there's no ledge all the way around - just these three lugs. There will be a magnet on each lug and a matching magnet on the cover. The cover is opened by pushing down on either extreme end, which pops it off the opposite magnet and tilts it up so you can grab it and take it off. I feel like this is the best combination of elegance (no fasteners visible, no finger cutout visible) and simplicity.

I dropped the unfinished pickup shells in place to mark them for orientation and I set the fretboard in place to get an idea of how the overall look was progressing.

IMG_20210718_174749.jpg
 
Quiet couple of days but I did get the body trimmed and routed to shape, and I routed the pickup and control cavities.

View attachment 4338674

I still need to cut the "lugs" down quite a bit with my second template (I ran out of time!) This bass will have a tilting magnetic cover on the control cavity, so there's no ledge all the way around - just these three lugs. There will be a magnet on each lug and a matching magnet on the cover. The cover is opened by pushing down on either extreme end, which pops it off the opposite magnet and tilts it up so you can grab it and take it off. I feel like this is the best combination of elegance (no fasteners visible, no finger cutout visible) and simplicity.

I dropped the unfinished pickup shells in place to mark them for orientation and I set the fretboard in place to get an idea of how the overall look was progressing.

View attachment 4338679

What a clever and elegant solution for a cavity cover! I absolutely love it! And will be "borrowing" it for my next build!

This is just too cool a build thread. You are very talented, even building your own bridge. Awesome!
 
  • Like
Reactions: BBassBassington