Bummed

[jmcorn]

Since churches are full of people, they never will be perfect. Anyway, I smell us bro. I suggest going to your guy and saying 'hep a brother out. I'm new to this stuff and I would really appreciate your input'.

See where that gets you.

I agree. I have taken bass lessons from a really good guitar player before. You can learn from him things that will take you years to figure out on your own. I think maybe you should get him to show you a few things. Then go practice practice practice. Also get a drum machine. I have 5 kids so i understand the busy part. Most of my practice time is spent playing along with MP3s trying to memorize songs for Sunday service and not as much playing scales and appegios and other things like I should. This is my fourth year of playing and I must admit it is slow going at first. Main thing is not to be discouraged. You are doing it for the Lord.

 

[the yeti]

Sometimes veteran players will try to shape up newbies by riding them a bit hard. I'm not saying it's a good method or a bad one, but I've seen it.

In his defense, it can be very difficult to solo over accompaniment that doesn't feel right. But considering it was a new song for you, the thing for him to do would have been to not worry about his precious solo until you had the chord progression down. Guitarists. Sounds like he needs to temper his expectations to the actual reality of the playing situation.

In any event, I'm not a Christian, but his behaviour doesn't sound particularly Christian to me, according to my understanding of Christian values. If you don't feel comfortable confronting him directly, maybe you could talk to the music director about your feelings?

this, coupled w/what seems to be a bit of defensiveness on your part look like what it is to me.

if the guy's as good as you say you have a great opportunity to learn. you have to decide if you want to take advantage of it or not. making excuses is not taking advantage of it.

that's harsh i know, but doesn't mean it's not true. if you want to do it start going about the business of doing it right now.

 

[artechoke]

The guitar player sounds like a jerk, but you really seem like you don't want to get any better or are just uncurious about playing. Maybe you're frustrated about the possibility of being frustrated (I get that way sometimes).

The "practice time" issue can be overcome. Some guys just can't sit down and concentrate on things for a longer stretch of time (out of boredom or necessity), but playing for a few minutes at a time multiple times a day can be just as good.

Leave your bass guitar on a stand in a place that you commonly use - by the TV or computer. Just pick it up and noodle around on it while you're relaxing, even if it is only for a few minutes at a time.

Get a beginner bass book and a metronome, and at least learn intervals and triads. They are EASY and will open things way up for you.

 

[bloobass]

Don't go into a situation telling someone new that you're "not very good"...this shows you have no confidence, and a egomaniac and/or bully will thrive on it! In the future, do what you can, and if he makes suggestions or complaints, try to grow from them, while saying something like "thanks, I'm still learning and appreciate all the help I can get".
You're going to have top practice more/take lessons/ get some kind of help to evolve to the next level...what you're currently doing isn't working very well for you it seems.
The P&W experience I have (playing with a large church 3 services a Sunday plus Christmas and Easter productions for about 3 years), showed me that even the most amazing musicians can be completely humble. But, like any other band situation, playing with somebody that can't (or struggles) do the job can get the best of you. It's the whole devil on one shoulder, angel on the other...

 

[Factor88]

Leave your bass guitar on a stand in a place that you commonly use - by the TV or computer. Just pick it up and noodle around on it while you're relaxing, even if it is only for a few minutes at a time.

I work a full time day gig, am active in Church activities, and like the OP have two small children at home.

With that in mind:

(1) Leaving an instrument out on a stand is an invitation to having it be pulled over, possibly by my four year old onto my one year old. People with small kids need to think of these things..

(2) "while relaxing"? No relaxing going on for Mom and Dad in my house..

Perhaps things are different for the OP, but just pointing out that practicing may not be as easy for him as some seem to think...

 

[Factor88]

It's the Lord's will that we study diligently to be masters at whatever we put our hand to do.

Dude, I was all in with what you were saying until this point.

Take my situation. I am in the praise band for my church. My church has a really good organized choir so the praise band only plays 5-6 times a year at the casual service.

I am a competent bass player, but my sight reading, both for bass and vocals, is not what it used ot be when I was a full time muso. I'm given the sheet music to the songs in the praise band about two weeks before performance. We normally will have two rehersals before performance. These are the only times I look at the music (I work two jobs and have two small children). Needless to say, both my bass and vocals can be rough, but since we don't have a drummer and the chording instrumentalists in the band have tempo problems, I am the one who keeps the band together rythym-wise.

So, with that in mind, let me respond to your comment.

Sure I could practice music more if I took time off of work. But I can't believe it is the Lord's will to take food off my kid's table (or my money out of the communion plate, for that matter).

Sure I could take time away from my kids, but I can't beleive that's the Lord's will either...

Or I could just quit the band, and have them sound even worse than we already do. I can't believe that is the Lord's will either.

God Bless...............

 

[bloobass]

In regards to making time to practice: There have been many a night I'm playing through headphones at midnight, because it's the only free time I can score between 50+ hours at work, 4 kids with soccer, football, softball, academic events, helping with homework, yardwork, auto maintainance, family meals, grocery shopping.....
But on the same hand, I cherish some of that late night time and my family calls it "dads quiet time"...because they all know, if I can't squeeze in a little 12 tone therapy, I'm a miserable SOB to be around.

Edited to add: I'm not a mean person at all, but playing really is a form of therapy for me: All my stress, worry, whatever might be bothering me leaves while I'm playing

I'll get all the sleep I need when I'm dead

 

[Factor88]

In regards to making time to practice: There have been many a night I'm playing through headphones at midnight.......... I cherish some of that late night time and my family calls it "dads quiet time"...because they all know, if I can't squeeze in a little 12 tone therapy, I'm a miserable SOB to be around.

If I was practicing at midnight when I get up at 5 am to go to work, I would be a miserable SOB both to the people at work and to my family when I got home around 6 pm.

Hey, if you feel practice time improves your peace of mind/quality of life, I cannot argue with you. That works for you, great. For me, however, it does not work like that. I would get better peace of mind getting the extra 20 minutes of sleep or 20 extra minutes with my kids or 20 extra minutes fixing something around the house.

 

[pedroims]

tell him that guitar solos are dead...

 

[bloobass]

If I was practicing at midnight when I get up at 5 am to go to work, I would be a miserable SOB both to the people at work and to my family when I got home around 6 pm.

I also get up at 5, so a few nights a month sacrificing a little sleep isn't a huge deal to me, but to each his own

Hey, if you feel practice time improves your peace of mind/quality of life, I cannot argue with you. That works for you, great. For me, however, it does not work like that. I would get better peace of mind getting the extra 20 minutes of sleep or 20 extra minutes with my kids or 20 extra minutes fixing something around the house.

And the whole better ways to spend 20 minutes...that's why I wait til everybody goes to bed and it's dark. The only person getting cheated out of time is me, and I get significant peace of mind relaxing with my bass, much more so than 20 minutes of sleep has ever given me

But again, to each his own....

 

[Lilgray]

Dude, I was all in with what you were saying until this point.

Take my situation. I am in the praise band for my church. My church has a really good organized choir so the praise band only plays 5-6 times a year at the casual service.

I am a competent bass player, but my sight reading, both for bass and vocals, is not what it used ot be when I was a full time muso. I'm given the sheet music to the songs in the praise band about two weeks before performance. We normally will have two rehersals before performance. These are the only times I look at the music (I work two jobs and have two small children). Needless to say, both my bass and vocals can be rough, but since we don't have a drummer and the chording instrumentalists in the band have tempo problems, I am the one who keeps the band together rythym-wise.

So, with that in mind, let me respond to your comment.

Sure I could practice music more if I took time off of work. But I can't believe it is the Lord's will to take food off my kid's table (or my money out of the communion plate, for that matter).

Sure I could take time away from my kids, but I can't beleive that's the Lord's will either...

Or I could just quit the band, and have them sound even worse than we already do. I can't believe that is the Lord's will either.

God Bless...............

With all due respect - you did post on this forum saying you were not happy with how the new guy treated you and you did say you didn't play very frequently and you eluded to having rudimentary abilities (I don't remember your OP verbatim) so people are just trying to give you the advice that you asked for, and part of that is suggesting you practice more so you can have more confidence. But it seems like you aren't willing/able to practice and if that is the case, have peace with it. You don't have to convince or get defensive. You can just say, "thanks, appreciate it" and then do whatever you are going to do. Nobody here knows what your life is like except for you.

Some people are just jerks - nobody can control or change how the guitar player treats you. So there are really two things you can do 1) start playing at the level that he expects so he stops being a jerk about your boom-boom-boom (which probably requires practicing more) or 2) ignore him and his comments, and keep doing what you can because it sounds like you are doing it more for the church and not really for yourself. (whereas the guitar player seems to be playing for himself - and not the church!)

My guess is: If he came to a church band to fulfill his unmet needs of being a rockstar and has a huge ego, he probably won't be there for too long? I'm sure your music is good enough for the venue - and if it isn't good enough for HIM - it sounds like HE needs to find a different gig!

<<<<EDIT: oops, looks like I confused some people and got the OP mixed up with someone else. Anyhoo - I think it's still relevant so I'll leave my post the way it is>>>>>

 

[artechoke]

Perhaps things are different for the OP, but just pointing out that practicing may not be as easy for him as some seem to think...

Eh, right. As a father I found my day was broken up into tiny unusable blocks of time until I changed how I do things. My kid was never killed by my bass guitar.

The fact that you found the time to read a thread, and responses, and make several responses yourself suggest you could have picked up your guitar and played a bit instead.

On topic - I'm guessing the guitarist would have a problem with the OP regardless of practice or playing more advanced basslines etc. It sounds like the guy is just trying to assert dominance by singling someone out.

 

[Spawndn72]

OP here...

Thanks for all the replys and advice. Hoestly I was just venting. Sometimes typing something out is good therapy.

I completely agree with everyone about my need to practice more which is why I started taking lessons a few weeks ago.

Up to this point the main problem I have had in learning is that we would decide on a date to play, I would get all geared up and excited about playing, start practicing, start getting better, learning songs, starting to be able to remember where the G was and the C was, etc... We would play, things would go great, we would get great complements, etc.

Then we would not play again for 9 months to a year or even longer. I would continue practicing and trying to figure things out but with no one to play with or play for my interest would wane and the bass would collect dust and then the next time we decided to play the process would start over.

BTW, none of what I am saying is an excuse for not practicing, it is just the reality of what would happen.

All that being said, I am hoping the lessons will keep my interest up even after we have played our set in June. This is the biggest set I have ever done. It is an outdoor community kinda thing where we will be playing for 2 hours or so.

Thanks again.

 

[MatticusMania]

I know I sound like a whiner and I probably am, just bummed.
What was once a fun 2-4 times a year thing has turned into something I stress over.

Thanks for letting me vent.

Maybe you can find some guys outside of church to play with so that you can practice with them a bit more often?

Also, is there any way you can find some more time to practice on your own at home?

 

[MatticusMania]

Sure I could practice music more if I took time off of work. But I can't believe it is the Lord's will to take food off my kid's table (or my money out of the communion plate, for that matter).

Sure I could take time away from my kids, but I can't beleive that's the Lord's will either...

Or I could just quit the band, and have them sound even worse than we already do. I can't believe that is the Lord's will either.

God Bless...............

I think the point of "It's the Lord's will that we study diligently to be masters at whatever we put our hand to do." is being taken out of context here.

Sure I could practice music more if I took time off of work. - You should be working diligently at your work as well, since that is something that "we put our hand to do"

Sure I could take time away from my kids - You should work diligently at raising your kids, as thats something "we put our hand to do"

I could just quit the band - And you should also work diligently at that.

The quote means that with everything we work on/for, we should put our all into doing it the best we can.

 

[jive1]

There is something to be said about being unequally yoked....

Once in a while, I'll get an invitation from some beginner musicians asking to jam. I will decline most of the time, because I know that I probably won't enjoy myself due to the quality of musicians I am used to working with. Heck, I lose patience when a group of pros can't get a song down in couple of takes. So in the long run, I usually decline because it's usually not that fun for any of us.

The questions I have are:
What is the goal of the group? If it's just for fun and worship, the guitar player needs to chill. If it's for something on a more pro-level, then the OP will need to step up.

What is the goal of the guitarist? If he's there to have fun, then he's doing a terrible job of it. If he's trying to improve the group and he's as talented as the OP says, he might be worth listening to. If he's just trying to be the boss, then he needs a talking to.

What is the goal of bringing in the guitarist? If it's to improve the overall sound, then he might be worth listening to. Maybe the music director asked if he could coach the band.

What is the OP's goal? If he's just there to have fun and worship, then the guitar player sure isn't helping. If he's there to serve, then the guitarist needs to consider that. If he's there to improve on his instrument, then the guitarist might be worth listening to.


As harsh as it may be, the truth is the truth whether it comes from the mouth of a beautiful woman or a donkey's arse. But, we'd all rather get that from beauty than an @$$.

 

[Spawndn72]

OP here again...

Ok, maybe he is not such bad guy after all.

We had practice again tonight and he came in with a bunch of ideas to make my life easier on me. Mainly he talked to the drummer about slowing some of the songs down some and simplifying his beats a little. He then gave me some pointers on what to play.

So tonight ended up being the most fun I have had playing music to date.

God is good, all the time.

Thanks everyone.

 

[cleary]

OP here again...

Ok, maybe he is not such bad guy after all.

We had practice again tonight and he came in with a bunch of ideas to make my life easier on me. Mainly he talked to the drummer about slowing some of the songs down some and simplifying his beats a little. He then gave me some pointers on what to play.

So tonight ended up being the most fun I have had playing music to date.

God is good, all the time.

Thanks everyone.

That's great news

My 2c:
I started very similarly to you - new to bass, in a band full of very accomplished musicians (including the bass player I was replacing), was given charts, had no idea how to fill the gaps in the chords.

The thing that really helped me get over the hurdle was Ed Friedlanders "Building Walking Bass Lines". It's recommended here a fair bit, but in all honesty it got me from a root playing boom boom state to having a whole lot of "approach note" options and turnarounds in a week or two.
There are a few good jazz play along series, Maiden Voyage by Jamey Aebersold is one I know of with a bunch of different difficulty standards, and is well presented.

I've been with the band 2.5 years now, my musical knowledge and playing skills have improved in leaps and bounds, made a heap of new friends, and loving bass/playing/music in general more than ever - the opportunity sounds like it is there for you to get the same satisfaction, so I hope you can

 

[mellowinman]

OP here again...

Ok, maybe he is not such bad guy after all.

We had practice again tonight and he came in with a bunch of ideas to make my life easier on me. Mainly he talked to the drummer about slowing some of the songs down some and simplifying his beats a little. He then gave me some pointers on what to play.

So tonight ended up being the most fun I have had playing music to date.

God is good, all the time.

Thanks everyone.

That's great news

My 2c:
I started very similarly to you - new to bass, in a band full of very accomplished musicians (including the bass player I was replacing), was given charts, had no idea how to fill the gaps in the chords.

The thing that really helped me get over the hurdle was Ed Friedlanders "Building Walking Bass Lines". It's recommended here a fair bit, but in all honesty it got me from a root playing boom boom state to having a whole lot of "approach note" options and turnarounds in a week or two.
There are a few good jazz play along series, Maiden Voyage by Jamey Aebersold is one I know of with a bunch of different difficulty standards, and is well presented.

I've been with the band 2.5 years now, my musical knowledge and playing skills have improved in leaps and bounds, made a heap of new friends, and loving bass/playing/music in general more than ever - the opportunity sounds like it is there for you to get the same satisfaction, so I hope you can

Maybe the guy reads this forum, and he read my "solution," and got scared.

 

[MatticusMania]

OP here again...

Ok, maybe he is not such bad guy after all.

We had practice again tonight and he came in with a bunch of ideas to make my life easier on me. Mainly he talked to the drummer about slowing some of the songs down some and simplifying his beats a little. He then gave me some pointers on what to play.

So tonight ended up being the most fun I have had playing music to date.

God is good, all the time.

Thanks everyone.

Thats awesome! I liked someone suggestion that you set some time up with your drummer and just practice practice practice! See if he's up for it and schedule it! Nothing will help you grow more than playing more!