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Buying a PA for a female vocalist

C

cnl83

Jan 30, 2007
106
0
#1
Im buying a PA system in the range 3-600.00 for gigging at small to medium venues. The problem that we have is that during practice, we just cant get her volume loud enough without major feedback.

Does anyone have any experience dealing with this, and any advice on which PA I should go with, or is there something else besides a PA that she should be singing through?

Thanks in advanced!!
 
#2
cnl83 said:
Im buying a PA system in the range 3-600.00 for gigging at small to medium venues. The problem that we have is that during practice, we just cant get her volume loud enough without major feedback.
Click to expand...

With all due respect, my first thought is that maybe the rest of y'all are too loud? Have you tried or is it possible to bring down the band volume? Most small P.A./monitor systems don't have a prayer against two 100-watt guitar stacks at full roar, plus a cranked bass rig and full-on drums. Not assuming that to be your situation, but just something to consider.

Also, you say the problem is in rehearsal so it might have something to do with how you're set up. If you're in a circle or semi-circle, the singer's mic could be picking up other instruments and so as you're turning her up you're also turning everyone else up and then you get to the point where she's feeding back and you still can't hear her.

Again, not to discourage you from upgrading your P.A., but there might be some things you can do to solve the problem without investing in new gear.
 
#3
Hi.

Range of 3-600.00? $, €, other more potent currency?

Frankly, that'll buy You next to nothing in vocal amplification other than acoustic type gigs if shopping for used gear, nothing, if it has to be new.

Small to medium?

You have to be more descriptive than that. My small would be less than 20 seat coffee shop, medium would be from that to 150 seat bar. Both are tiny for some ;).

You also have to give us some clues about the genre and the other instruments/amplification if you're hoping to get useful suggestions.

Help us to help You.

Regards
Sam
 
#4
T-Bird said:
Hi.

Range of 3-600.00? $, €, other more potent currency?

Frankly, that'll buy You next to nothing in vocal amplification other than acoustic type gigs if shopping for used gear, nothing, if it has to be new.

Small to medium?

You have to be more descriptive than that. My small would be less than 20 seat coffee shop, medium would be from that to 150 seat bar. Both are tiny for some ;).

You also have to give us some clues about the genre and the other instruments/amplification if you're hoping to get useful suggestions.

Help us to help You.

Regards
Sam
Click to expand...
Agree with all of this.

Also, for your current setup you should make sure the PA speakers aren't pointed at the vocal mic when you practice. Have the singer face the speakers, or go sideways to them. See if either of those helps. Agree with turning down everything, also you may just be stuck with a really quiet singer in which case you might just find a new singer. You can't have a quiet voice and sing on stage, it just causes a ton of problems.
 
#5
In your practice space, think of your PA's primary function as simply being her own personal vocal monitor first, and then its secondary use should be for the rest of you guys to ALSO hear her. Try out every conceivable location for both the PA's speakers and also her. Try to not boost any of her mixer channel EQ settings to much (if theres any that make her voice sound better, try leaving those centered and then lowering the rest instead of boosting any...) and take it easy on her reverb levels too achieve the most volume without feedback. Also try experimenting with using lower gain/level settings on her mixer channels input and then also experimented with diferent setting level combinations between her channels (output volume) fader and the mixers 2 master volume settings. Sometimes finding the right gain-staging combonation of all these settings can really help.
 
#11
cnl83 said:
Im buying a PA system in the range 3-600.00 for gigging at small to medium venues. The problem that we have is that during practice, we just cant get her volume loud enough without major feedback.

Does anyone have any experience dealing with this, and any advice on which PA I should go with, or is there something else besides a PA that she should be singing through?

Thanks in advanced!!
Click to expand...

What kind of PA do you have now? Is it your singers lack of projection? If the system is feeding back, you have options.
1. Set speakers up differently/properly
2. Check the mic yourself, see if it is just this paticular singer- I do this at practice when one of our 3 female singers complains she cant hear herself, I go over to her WAY TOO HOT mic and go check check, scareing the SH&^ out of everyone in the room. :smug:

Many many speakers out there suitable for vocal only systems, or a building block for full range systems with the addition of more tops, and subs. From the low end nady,yamaha,mackie, to the medium/high range EV, eaw, turbosound.
2 speakers for 1000 can be done, but you will get what you pay for. Used might be the way to go. Meyer Upa-1's. or Apogee AE-5's are good little boxes. Maybe about 500-600 each or so. You will need the processors and seperate amps though, bringing you in at more around 2500 range.
The yammy club series are always a good cheap option. Personally I prefer 12" speakers over 15" for vocals.
A good graphics eq in your exsisting system may be a better option. It never ends with PA gear.:ninja:
 
#12
GregShadoan said:
2. Check the mic yourself, see if it is just this paticular singer- I do this at practice when one of our 3 female singers complains she cant hear herself, I go over to her WAY TOO HOT mic and go check check, scareing the SH&^ out of everyone in the room. :smug:
Click to expand...

Ah yes, classic TSS (Timid Singer Syndrome)... you turn her up, so she backs off, so you turn it up so more, and she backs off some more... till the P.A. is squealing and she still says she can't hear herself (Thinking of that squeaky-voiced little character in Police Academy now.)

Sing out, woman! Or yield the mic to someone who will.
 
#13
jaywa said:
Ain't that the truth. And x10 for bass gear.
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Amen. That's why everybody goes toward Markbass in the end. Our backs just can't take heavy as we get older. :)

To the OP, find a used Yamaha setup, like an EMX512 and a couple BR-15s. New they're around $1200 for a full setup including speaker stands, cables, and a couple mics. Used you can get them for under a grand. That will be all the practice room PA you need.

And yeah, make sure the problem isn't your singer before you spend any money at all.
 
#14
jaywa said:
Ah yes, classic TSS (Timid Singer Syndrome)... you turn her up, so she backs off, so you turn it up so more, and she backs off some more... till the P.A. is squealing and she still says she can't hear herself (Thinking of that squeaky-voiced little character in Police Academy now.)

Sing out, woman! Or yield the mic to someone who will.
Click to expand...

Yep. The problem with a lot of (esp. inexperienced) female vocalists is that they sing both quietly and are afraid of singing close to the mic, like they shy away from their own voice. You simply can't sing like that in a band and expect it to work. Keep the mouth closer to the mic or sing out loudly. Preferably both, if it is stylistically an option.

Other things to check is the mic pattern and pointing direction relative to the sound source. Try also to replace the mic with a less sensitive one, and add an eq allowing you tu cut in the area 2,5 - 5 kHz, as that is where feedback generally occur. However that's also the frequency range that makes vocals cut through and be heard well...
 
#15
cnl83 said:
Ok, 1000.00 what would be my best bet? lol

ITs just for vocals, no instrument.
Click to expand...

I use a Soundcraft GigRac 1000s with JBL speakers and monitors. New the GigRac is $499. Decent speakers like JRX115 are going to run around the $650 mark, add cable, speaker stands, etc and you're looking at $1300 or so. If you want a couple of monitors, say JRX112s, another $600.

What I will say is that this set-up, with or without monitors, will easily 'compete' with a drummer, bass rig, and two 100w guitar amps if behaving!

Search second hand and you maybe able to get in there under a $1k. However, be aware that this systems is not really upgradeable. If you think you're going to need a bigger systems in the future I'd say go down the separate mixer/power amp route.
 
#16
a real PA is a system
and you can't just walk into GC and buy a system. Well, you can, but it won't be a real PA system.
It's best to pick components and build a system..preferably modular so you can mix and match pieces to accommodate each venue. A PA system starts with a mixing desk, maybe some outboard processing, house speakers, power to drive speakers, monitors, power to drive monitors, mics, cables, stands, DI boxes etc.
These days for small clubs powered speakers are available and very convenient . Mackie or JBL on a stick, a couple of powered monitors, a mixer with built in FX and you are in business. A good vocal mic for a female voice is an important choice. I like the neumann kms 105 for a sultry female voice..I like the beta 58 for a rock and roller. another way to go would be in ear monitors..but now we are way beyond your budget.

these are just a few things to consider when talking PA
it's not like buying a bass amp, it's a bit more complex than that.
Hope this helped.
 
#17
I would definitely do some research on the mic first. What kind of mic is she using? Is she putting it close to her? I am no expert on mics, but are there not some mics that tend less to pick up other sounds in the background than others? If it is a crappy mic, audition another one and see if that solves the problem, along with some better technique from her, possible repositioning, and balance.
 
#18
I agree...make sure you are not setting her up to feedback in the practice set up. Also, try a different microphone before spending $$ on a PA. Look for a good vocal mic with the highest gain before feedback that you can find. Try out a Shure Beta 58A ($159) at Musician's Friend or a Sennheiser e845 ($139) at Sweetwater or even an Audix OM-7 ($229 at Musician's Friend). You might be able to find one or more of these mics used if you keep an eye out.
 
#20
+1 to new gear anytime!!!

But sometimes the best way to solve a problem is to find out what the problem is. Solving a couple of problems this could easily be with a large enough PA will result in deafness for everyone in the band.

Squealing is feedback, when the speakers sound is picked up by the microphone & then gets re-amplified & picked up stronger by the mic . . . Any system will feedback, if turned up loud enough.

What mic? Omnidirectional picks up sound equally in all directions, including from the speakers. Cardioid picks up much more from the front than the back, Hyper- or Super-Cardioid even more so. Loud stages & Omnis don't work well together.

Gear layout. Have mic cable pointing towards the mic's speakers. (There's more & deeper, but that'll do for now.)

Mic technique. Does the singer know basic mic techniques? If not, they have some work to do.

Singing technique. There are ways to sing louder easier without limiting one's style (unless "suck" is a singing style these days). I like the above post about a singer complaining about not enough volume & the poster's "Check, check" causing everyone to jump.

I'd defer buying another PA until the above are looked into.
 

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