Buzzing fingernail with the floating thumb

[haegar]

Hi!
I've been playing the bass for one and a half year now, having a teacher that teaches me a version of the "moving anchor thumb". I always felt uncomfortable using it as I get probs with tendons quite fast when I bend my wrists in "bad" angles quite fast (and I also play the piano).
Just recently I came across the floating thumb on youtube and got me the technique builders and walking bass vol 1 (as I am also starting to get into Jazz)
I felt comfortable with the method immediately and it took me just two days to get quite used to it.

Although I am almost convinced that I will stay with this method I still have a small problem with it:
When I play up from a lower to an upper string using alternate picking I get a buzzing sound from my floating thumb's nail that just moves onto the string that I just played.

More detailed:
My thumb is on the E-string and index-finger is picking the A-string.
Now middle-finger wants to pick the D-string and the mechanism moves upwards.
The thumb now moves onto the A-string before the middle-finger (that just plays the D-string) comes to also rest on that string. That means the thumb is stopping the string
and that causes the fingernail to make a ringing sound.
What I allready tried is delaying the thumb when moving up so that it arrives after the middle-finger.
This removes the noise but feels very weird as it negates the positive effect of the equal distances (regarding muscle memory). I hope I explained this in a way that is understandable.

Did anyone come across a similar problem with the floating thumb?

kind regards,

Haegar

 

[Todd Johnson]

Hi!
I've been playing the bass for one and a half year now, having a teacher that teaches me a version of the "moving anchor thumb". I always felt uncomfortable using it as I get probs with tendons quite fast when I bend my wrists in "bad" angles quite fast (and I also play the piano).
Just recently I came across the floating thumb on youtube and got me the technique builders and walking bass vol 1 (as I am also starting to get into Jazz)
I felt comfortable with the method immediately and it took me just two days to get quite used to it.

Although I am almost convinced that I will stay with this method I still have a small problem with it:
When I play up from a lower to an upper string using alternate picking I get a buzzing sound from my floating thumb's nail that just moves onto the string that I just played.

More detailed:
My thumb is on the E-string and index-finger is picking the A-string.
Now middle-finger wants to pick the D-string and the mechanism moves upwards.
The thumb now moves onto the A-string before the middle-finger (that just plays the D-string) comes to also rest on that string. That means the thumb is stopping the string
and that causes the fingernail to make a ringing sound.
What I allready tried is delaying the thumb when moving up so that it arrives after the middle-finger.
This removes the noise but feels very weird as it negates the positive effect of the equal distances (regarding muscle memory). I hope I explained this in a way that is understandable.

Did anyone come across a similar problem with the floating thumb?

kind regards,

Haegar

Here's 2 possible fixes....

1. trim the nail.....keep em short.

2. Move your thumb just the "tiny-est bit" to get it out of the way. It might just be that simple.

I hope this helps....

 

[deckard]

Hope Todd doesn't mind me butting in here...

My experience is that you can "get" the absolute basics of floating thumb in a fairly short period of time. However, fine-tuning the technique is an on-going process.

I had been playing with a fixed-anchor type technique for over 30 years (with a several-year self-imposed layoff in there, though) and had a reasonably good handle on that technique.

I switched to floating thumb because I started developing wrist/carpal-tunnel issues in my dotage.

I "got" the floating-thumb basics fairly soon, thanks to Todd's most excellent "Technique Builders" DVD; but for a while I, too, had issues with my thumbnail.

Now, a couple of years later, I have no such issues with my thumbnail - and looking back, I can see that it has been "refine, refine, refine", paying attention and making small, subtle changes over time to my floating-thumb technique.

So, be patient, stick with it, etc. and you'll get there. The more time you spend with it, the more "aware" you will be of your right hand (esp. the thumb itself) when playing & you will find you can likely make very minute/subtle changes in hand and/or thumb position & angle as you play.

I guess I'm saying that, for me, it isn't a static "always-hold-your-hand/thumb-in-exactly-one-frozen-position" kind of thing, you know?

Just my own personal experience... hope it helps a bit.

 

[haegar]

Thanks a lot for your advice. I am allready finding out myself that small adjustments in the "positioning of the mechanism" change the occurence of that noise. I always keep my nails short, so this is not the point. But as you said it seems like after the initial wow about that new method, the finetuning needs time and practice. Nevertheless it was an immediate improvement to the method before.
One downside though... playing the e-string now feels weird as there is no anchor to play against and the thumb is hanging in the air somehow. This results in a quite uneven picking and tone. Do you have any recomendations on this topic?

 

[deckard]

IMHO, as I understand Todd's DVD, you just "lay" your thumb across the strings - as opposed to using it to support your hand while you play or to "play against" (which sounds like another kind of "anchor" to me) staying as relaxed as possible: "the mechanism" (upper arm & esp. shoulder) is what supports the hand & makes it possible for you to keep the hand relaxed and just "lay" the thumb across the strings...

As I practiced last night I watched what I do when I play on the E-string:

my forearm rests ever-so-lightly lightly on the body of the bass when I play these days, keeping the elbow up like Todd says - I don't allow it to drop like I used to when I played with a fixed anchor.

When I move the whole "mechanism" to play the E-string, the part of my forearm almost near the wrist rests quite lightly on the bass body - sometimes the meaty part of the palm below the thumb + the thumb itself rest ever-so-lightly on the bass, too.

BUT, the whole thing is all really supported by my shoulder/upper arm.

So, I don't really have an anchor to "play against" when I pluck the E-string - everything is supported by the shoulder & upper arm... and the thumb "floats".

(I should mention that another change I have made, in addition to adopting floating thumb, is to turn up & pluck lighter [you get a much fatter sound] and use lighter gauge strings.)

Granted, it took a while to get used to all of this - but I wouldn't go back.

Hope that helps!

JMHO

p.s. - Todd's DVD makes all this much easier to understand because you can *see* what he's talking about & re-play it as many times as needed...

 

[Todd Johnson]

IMHO, as I understand Todd's DVD, you just "lay" your thumb across the strings - as opposed to using it to support your hand while you play or to "play against" (which sounds like another kind of "anchor" to me) staying as relaxed as possible: "the mechanism" (upper arm & esp. shoulder) is what supports the hand & makes it possible for you to keep the hand relaxed and just "lay" the thumb across the strings...

As I practiced last night I watched what I do when I play on the E-string:

my forearm rests ever-so-lightly lightly on the body of the bass when I play these days, keeping the elbow up like Todd says - I don't allow it to drop like I used to when I played with a fixed anchor.

When I move the whole "mechanism" to play the E-string, the part of my forearm almost near the wrist rests quite lightly on the bass body - sometimes the meaty part of the palm below the thumb + the thumb itself rest ever-so-lightly on the bass, too.

BUT, the whole thing is all really supported by my shoulder/upper arm.

So, I don't really have an anchor to "play against" when I pluck the E-string - everything is supported by the shoulder & upper arm... and the thumb "floats".

(I should mention that another change I have made, in addition to adopting floating thumb, is to turn up & pluck lighter [you get a much fatter sound] and use lighter gauge strings.)

Granted, it took a while to get used to all of this - but I wouldn't go back.

Hope that helps!

JMHO

p.s. - Todd's DVD makes all this much easier to understand because you can *see* what he's talking about & re-play it as many times as needed...

Well said Deckard!!

Thanks for the help!!

 

[deckard]

Thanks, Todd!

So maybe it sounds as if I might be "getting" the floating-thumb thing?

It sure has made a big difference in my playing and playing-comfort.

Actually, the whole "Technique Builders" DVD has made a huge positive difference in my playing (I play about 90% jazz and play just fretless).

I play with a jazz pianist buddy of mine every other week, + occasionally in a jazz trio (w. piano & drums); occasionally I'm strapped for practice time (life *can* get in the way, despite all our efforts to the contrary); BUT, if I can just set aside 45 minutes or so every day to work on the technique exercises on the DVD, I can make it through those playing sessions much smoother than if I practiced other stuff & neglected the exercises entirely.

I hope that makes sense...

 

[haegar]

Thanks for all the detailed info!
Off course I have the dvd's (technique and walkingbass 1) but I didn't work through them entirely. From what I saw so far most of the time todd's picking is shown when he plays an upper string and his thumb rests on another string.
On the walking bass dvd it even seems that todd is putting his thumb on the pickup slightly from time to time. So I was confused a little bit.
When i observe my current practice it also seems like I am quite often forgetting the shoulder muscle and rest my forearm on the instrument. Seems like i have to work on that. I'll give the new technique some weeks and then report back

Thanks a lot for your help